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Chauvet Obey 8 User`s Manual

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1. 2 11 14 13 ane ae 12 um amp Run Fade Strobe Time Speed Audio Sensitivity FUNCTION 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Fixtures select buttons Scenes select buttons Channel faders Page button Program button Patch Down button Mode Up button Step display Step del button Blackout button Chases buttons Run Strobe Speed fader Fade Time fader Audio Sensitivity fader Strobe button Channel Flash buttons Obey 8 User Manual Fixture selection Universal bump buttons representing scene location for storage and selection For adjusting DMX values Ch 1 4 can be adjusted immediately after pressing the respective fixture select button Ch 5 8 after pressing the Page select button Press to toggle between pages of control 1 4 5 8 Used to enter program mode Used to enter Physical Fader Assignment mode Used to activate Auto Sound or Manual mode and as the Up key to scroll through the different steps in a Chase Status window displays pertinent operational data Sets the chase speed by tapping and toggles between values and percentages Reduces all DMX values to zero used with the Fade Time fader Chase memory 1 8 This will adjust the hold time of a scene or a step within a chase it also adjusts the strobe speed when the strobe button is activated Also considered a cross fade sets the fade time between two scenes ina chase or adjust blackout speed Sets the a
2. Press lt PAGE gt to access channels 5 8 on the faders To program another lt FIXTURE gt deselect the lt FIXTURE gt you have just finished programming and then select another lt FIXTURE gt to program Repeat steps 2 5 until you have your look Press lt PROGRAM gt Select a lt SCENES gt button to store All LEDs will blink The relevant lt SCENE gt LED will now be on Repeat steps 2 7 to record more scenes Read Important notes on the right gt Exit program mode Delete scene Action amp 1 2 Obey 8 User Manual Enter program mode Press and hold lt STEP DEL gt while pressing the lt SCENES gt you want to delete All LEDs will flash indicating a successful delete Exit program mode Notes 7 Deselect lt BLACKOUT gt if LED is lit A lt FIXTURE gt button represents one lighting fixture You can access channels 5 8 by pressing lt PAGE gt select This is necessary for fixtures that use more than 16 channels of control When switching pages it will be necessary to move previously moved faders up then down to activate Pressing the same lt FIXTURE gt again will hold the parameters changed for that fixture in the program scene Notes 7 When a scene is removed the button may still be activated However this will be blank 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Chase Programming A chase is created by using previously created scenes Scenes become steps in a chase and can
3. DMX cable to the output female 3 pin connector of the controller Universal DMX Controller 0 2 Connect the end of the cable coming from the controller which will have a female 3 pin connector to the input connector of the next fixture consisting of a male 3 pin connector 0 431104109 09 X NOS This drawing provides a general illustration of the DMX input output panel of a lighting fixture 3 Then proceed to connect from the output as stated above to the input of the following fixture and so on CHAUVET Certified DMX Data Cables Order Code Description DMX1 5 DMX Cable 1 5 m 4 9 ft DMX4 5 DMX Cable 4 5 m 14 8 ft DMX10 DMX Cable 10 m 32 8 ft Continue the link Obey 8 User Manual 9 3 4 2010 3 12 PM 4 OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS Resetting the System AN This will reset the controller to its factory defaults This will erase all programs and settings 1 2 Tap lt PROGRAM gt and lt STEP DEL gt All LEDs will blink to indicate a successful reset Note This process may take up to 15 seconds Fixture Addressing The Obey 8 is programmed to control eight channels of DMX per fixture Therefore the fixtures you wish to control with the corresponding lt FIXTURES gt on the unit must be spaced eight channels apart check the respective fixture s manual for how to enter the information into the fixture
4. FIXTURE DEFAULT DMX STARTING ADDRESS DIP SWITCH SETTINGS 1 1 1 2 9 1 4 3 17 1 5 4 25 1 4 5 Ei Failure to use these DMX assignments may cause a lack of control of the fixtures Physical Fader Assignment optional setup Use this feature to combine or unify fixture control attributes for different fixtures For example if you were controlling four fixtures each with their own different channel configurations you could combine the channels to work with the same faders Therefore channels 1 2 and 3 could control red green and blue respectively Action amp 1 2 Press and hold lt PATCH gt for five seconds to access the fader assignment mode Press a lt FIXTURE gt button that represents the fixture whose faders you would like to re assign Press a lt FLASH gt button which corresponds to the fader you would like to move the DMX channel to Press the lt SCENE gt button which corresponds to the DMX channel 1 8 to move to that channel fader selected in step 3 All LEDs indicators will flash to confirm a successful copy Repeat steps 2 4 as often as necessary Press and hold lt PATCH gt for five seconds to exit the fader assignment mode If you wish to delete the fader assignment of a DMX channel you may follow the instructions below Obey 8 User Manual Press and hold lt PATCH gt for five seconds to access the fader assignment mode Press lt STEP DEL gt and the lt SCENE g
5. to deactivate it Blackout Notes 7 This will not operate in HTP highest take priority when stacking scenes You may select a fixture and override any scene or playing back at any time When pressing lt BLACKOUTs the lt FADE TIME gt fader will affect the function Action amp 1 Adjust the lt FADE TIME gt to select the speed at which the fixture s will fade out 2 Select lt BLACKOUT gt to activate the function Strobe The strobe function can be activated in ANY mode Action amp 1 Press lt STROBE gt 2 Adjust the lt RUN STROBE SPEED gt fader to the desired strobing speed 3 You may press lt STROBE gt again to use the lt RUN STROBE SPEED gt fader for playback speed adjustment Contact Us World Wide CHAUVET 3000 North 29 Court Hollywood FL 33020 voice 954 929 1115 fax 954 929 5560 toll free 800 762 1084 General Information CHAUVET 3000 North 29 Court Hollywood FL 33020 voice fax Technical Support World Wide Web Obey 8 User Manual 14 Notes 7 This function will work in ANY mode If the fade time is already being used for a chase running in Auto mode then pressing lt BLACKOUT gt will activate the function at the fade time that the chase is currently running Notes 7 This function will work in ANY mode In order to deactivate this function the lt STROBE gt must be activated Then move the lt RUN STROBE SPEED gt fader fully dow
6. Snapshot C TM EZ Use on Dimmer E Outdoor Use Sound Activated DMX Master Slave 12 V External Power Supply Replaceable Fuse User Serviceable Duty Cycle OD OIS IOSIS IOO User Manual SCENES EN Bo Bo Do o wo Sensitivity Strobe Speed DA Valve Innovation Performance 3000 N 29 Ct Hollywood FL 33020 U S A 800 762 1084 954 929 1115 FAX 954 929 5560 www chauvetlighting com TABLE OF CONTENTS SETTING UP THE SYSTEM ae deter 8 MOUNTING ssaa naa nana tad tada nandd 8 ONE AAA TN NON 8 Rigging FIXTURE LINKING S sata tinta nt data cata Data Cabling A NS NN DMX Data Cable Cable Connectors ooooooccciccccccccnns 3 Pin to 5 Pin Conversion Chart Setting up a DMX Serial Data Link A Operating InstructiONS iicicoiiiii dd 10 RESETTING THE TEM e o o e a e o o o ad o e a a h et 10 FIXTURE ADDRESSING 0 di tia 10 PHYSICAL FADER ASSIGNMENT OPTIONAL SETUP rannen e EEE E ea 10 PROGRAMMING ziiten eit A AS a a a 11 Entering program mode ae Proll Create a scene a we si jis een 11 Delete scene 11 CHASE PROGRAMMING 12 Create a Chase oooooocccccccnccococanonos 12 Delete a scene step in a Chase EN fi seh z4 12 Delete a Chase ooooooccccccinococacananes ws un 12 PLAYBACK CHASES SCENES 13 Manual run chase 13 Running in Sound Mode 13 Running in Auto Mod
7. al data link to run light shows of one or more fixtures using a DMX controller or to run synchronized shows on two or more fixtures set to a master slave operating mode The combined number of channels required by all the fixtures on a serial data link determines the number of fixtures the data link can support Fixtures on a serial data link must be daisy chained in one single line To comply with the EIA 485 standard no more than 32 fixtures should be connected on one data link Connecting more than 32 fixtures on one serial data link without the use of a DMX optically isolated splitter may result in deterioration of the digital DMX signal Maximum recommended serial data link distance 500 m 1640 ft Maximum recommended number of fixtures on a serial data link 32 Data Cabling To link fixtures together you must obtain data cables You can purchase CHAUVET certified DMX cables directly from a dealer distributor or construct your own cable If you choose to create your own cable please use data grade cables that can carry a high quality signal and are less prone to electromagnetic interference DMX Data Cable Use a BeldenO 9841 or equivalent cable which meets the specifications for EIA RS 485 applications Standard microphone cables cannot transmit DMX data reliably over long distances The cable must have the following characteristics Type shielded 2 conductor twisted pair Maximum capacitance between conductors 30 pF ft Maximum capa
8. be arranged in any order you choose You may use the same scene multiple times in a chase Create a chase A chase can contain up to 99 scenes as steps The term steps and scenes are used interchangeably You may program up to eight chases with the Obey 8 Action amp Notes 7 The LED display will indicate which step you are 1 Enter program mode currently recording to 2 Press the lt CHASE gt 1 8 button you wish to program You may use lt MODE UP gt and lt PATCH DOWN gt to scroll through the steps in the chase 3 You may select the lt SCENE gt to insert or you may select a lt FIXTURE gt and build a look using the faders 4 Tap lt PROGRAM gt to store All LEDs will flash What is displayed on the fixtures will be saved 5 Repeat steps 3 4 to add additional steps in wnen yourecora the step mto mechase the chase Up to 99 steps can be recorded 6 Exit program mode Delete a scene step in a Chase Action amp Notes 7 Remember that scene and steps are used 1 Enter program mode interchangeably 2 Press the desired lt CHASE gt 1 8 that contains the scene to be deleted 3 Use lt MODE UP gt and lt PATCH DOWN gt to switch to the desired step 4 Press lt STEP DEL gt to delete the step 5 Exit program mode Delete a Chase Action amp Notes 7 Scenes will remain programmed on the 1 Ener program mode controller Only the chase is affected 2 Press the
9. citance between conductor and shield 55 pF ft Maximum resistance 20 ohms 1000 ft Nominal impedance 100 140 ohms Obey 8 User Manual 8 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Cable Connectors Cabling must have a male XLR connector on one end and a female XLR connector on the other end Resistance 120 ohm 1 4 W between pin 2 DMX and pin 3 DMX on the output of the last fixture DMX connector configuration COMMON A O 3 OUTPUT 2 INPUT To avoid signal transmission problems and interference it is always advisable to connect a DMX signal terminator Do not allow contact between the common and the fixture s chassis ground Grounding the common can cause a ground loop and your fixture may perform erratically Test cables with an ohmmeter to verify correct polarity and to make sure the pins are not grounded or shorted to the shield or each other 3 Pin to 5 Pin Conversion Chart adapter such as CHAUVET Model No DMX5M or DMX5F The chart below details a proper If you use a controller with a 5 pin DMX output connector you will need to use a 5 pin to 3 pin L4 cable conversion 3 PIN TO 5 PIN CONVERSION CHART Conductor 3 Pin Female Output 5 Pin Male Input Ground Shield Pin 1 Pin 1 Data signal Pin 2 Pin 2 Data signal Pin 3 Pin 3 Not used Pin 4 Not used Pin 5 Setting up a DMX Serial Data Link 1 Connect the male 3 pin connector side of the
10. e cds Las dos is wi 13 Manttal Pun ii a aes 14 Obey 8 User Manual 2 3 4 2010 3 12 PM 1 BEFORE YOU BEGIN What is included 1 x Obey 8 Controller 1 x 12 VDC 500 mA Power Adapter 1 x Manual 1 x Warranty Card VVVV Unpacking Instructions Immediately upon receiving a fixture carefully unpack the carton check the contents to ensure that all parts are present and have been received in good condition Notify the shipper immediately and retain packing material for inspection if any parts appear damaged from shipping or the carton itself shows signs of mishandling Save the carton and all packing materials In the event that a fixture must be returned to the factory it is important that the fixture be returned in the original factory box and packing Manual Conventions CHAUVET manuals use the following conventions to differentiate certain types of information from the regular text CONVENTION MEANING 10 A DIP switch to be configured lt Menu gt A key to be pressed on the fixture s control panel 1 512 A range of values 50 60 A set of values of which only one can be chosen Settings A menu option not to be modified for example showing the operating mode current status MENU gt Settings A sequence of menu options to be followed ON A value to be entered or selected Icons This manual uses the following icons to indicate information that requires special attention on the part of the use
11. emale connectors The shield connection is pin 1 while pin 2 is Data Negative S and pin 3 is Data positive S General Maintenance O A To maintain optimum performance and minimize wear fixtures should be cleaned frequently Usage and environment are contributing factors in determining frequency As a general rule fixtures should be cleaned at least twice a month Dust build up reduces light output performance and can cause overheating This can lead to reduced lamp life and increased mechanical wear Be sure to power off fixture before conducting maintenance e Unplug fixture from power Use a vacuum or air compressor and a soft brush to remove dust collected on external vents e Clean all glass when the fixture is cold with a mild solution of glass cleaner or Isopropyl Alcohol and a soft lint free cotton cloth or lens tissue e Apply solution to the cloth or tissue and drag dirt and grime to the outside of the lens e Gently polish optical surfaces until they are free of haze and lint The cleaning of external optical lenses and or mirrors must be carried out periodically to optimize light output Cleaning frequency depends on the environment in which the fixture operates Damp smoky or particularly dirty surroundings can cause greater accumulation of dirt on the unit s optics Clean with soft cloth using normal glass cleaning fluid Clean the external optics at least every 20 days Clean the fixture at least every 30 60 da
12. g and concealed damage must be made within seven 7 days of receiving merchandise General Troubleshooting SYMPTOM SOLUTION S Scenes not playing back Check to confirm that the blackout function is not activated Fixtures are strobing Check the strobe speed by pressing lt STROBE gt and adjusting the speed on the fader Chase is too slow in Sound mode Check the Audio sensitivity fader Chase is too slow in Auto mode Check the Run Strobe speed and Fade Time sensitivity faders Different fixtures are not aligning with the Modify the physical Fader Assignments DMX channels This controller has a special feature which allows the blackout feature to Blackout is not activating instantly work with an adjustable fade time This is adjusted using the Fade Time fader 3 Check DMX address settings e are not responding to controller Check DMX cables Check the DMX polarity switch Obey 8 User Manual 16 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Technical Specifications WEIGHT 8 DIMENSIONS NO 14 7 in 373 mm WIN TA aces con trea ene arena 6 1 in 156 mm A denenvsetcutes cadebeetey cvteneaveleldeveordedutebeodticenssbontermededs 2 2 in 56 mm WOON aer cvaiee cannued fou bead enaa casas cep iad tates yettuss den Ea S aa Eaa ES E ESEESE 3 9 Ibs 1 8 kg POWER Operating RMS imita 12 VDC 500 mA max AC to DC power adapter 100 240 VAC 50 60 HZ oooooooncccnoccconcccocccnonanancconc nono no nancnanccnnnncnn nos Provided THERMAL Maximum ambient
13. lt CHASE gt 1 8 to be deleted 3 Press and hold lt STEP DEL gt and then the respective lt CHASE gt 4 Then release to delete the chase All LEDs will blink 5 Exit program mode Obey 8 User Manual 12 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Playback Chases Scenes Manual run chase When power is first turned ON the controller will be in Auto mode Action amp 1 Press lt MODE UP gt to select Manual mode 2 Select the lt CHASE gt to run 3 Press lt STEP DEL gt to navigate the different steps in the chase in increasing numeric order Running in Sound Mode Notes 7 This mode does not affect the scenes They will still operate separately in an HTP highest takes priority operation The LED display will note the current step in the chase If multiple chases are selected they will play back in sequential order You may select a fixture and override any scene or chase playing back at any time When power is first turned ON the controller will be in Auto mode Action amp 1 Press lt MODE UP gt to select Sound mode 2 Select the lt CHASE gt to run 3 Adjust the lt AUDIO gt fader to adjust the microphone sensitivity Running in Auto Mode Notes 7 In the Sound mode programs will be triggered by the sound using its built in microphone This mode does not affect the scenes They will still operate separately in an LTP last takes priority operation The LED display will note the c
14. n or to 10 m 954 929 1115 Press 4 954 929 5560 Attention Service www chauvetlighting com 3 4 2010 3 12 PM 5 APPENDIX DMX Primer There are 512 channels in a DMX connection Channels may be assigned in any manner A fixture capable of receiving DMX will require one or a number of sequential channels The user must assign a starting address on the fixture that indicates the first channel reserved in the controller There are many different types of DMX controllable fixtures and they all may vary in the total number of channels required Choosing a start address should be planned in advance Channels should never overlap If they do this will result in erratic operation of the fixtures whose starting address is set incorrectly You can however control multiple fixtures of the same type using the same starting address as long as the intended result is that of unison movement or operation In other words the fixtures will be slaved together and all respond exactly the same DMX fixtures are designed to receive data through a serial Daisy Chain A Daisy Chain connection is where the DATA OUT of one fixture connects to the DATA IN of the next fixture The order in which the fixtures are connected is not important and has no effect on how a controller communicates to each fixture Use an order that provides for the easiest and most direct cabling Connect fixtures using shielded two conductor twisted pair cable with three pin XLR male to f
15. on Please contact the nearest authorized technical assistance center Don t connect the device to a dimmer pack Make sure power cord is never crimped or damaged Never disconnect power cord by pulling or tugging on the cord Do not operate this device in more than 113 F 45 C ambient temperature conditions yourself In the unlikely event your unit may require service please contact CHAUVET at 954 929 There are no user serviceable parts inside the unit Do not open the housing or attempt any repairs 1115 Obey 8 User Manual 4 3 4 2010 3 12 PM 2 INTRODUCTION The Obey 8 is a compact universal intelligent lighting controller designed for use with LED wash fixtures dimming color mixing It allows for up to 32 channels of DMX with control of up to four fixtures Up to eight scenes and eight chases may be programmed It has a specialized blackout feature to be utilized with wash fixtures Features Universal DMX 512 compact LED controller Controls up to four intelligent lights of up to eight channels each 32 DMX channels of control Eight sets of chases containing up to 99 steps each 200 steps max Playback options include automatic sound activated or manual Four fader flash buttons for momentary on Adjustable audio sensitivity Sequential linking of chases Grab any fixture on the fly DMX polarity selector Obey 8 User Manual 5 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Product Overview front 16 BUTTON OR FADER
16. r ICONS MEANING This paragraph contains critical installation configuration or operation information Failure to comply with this information may render the fixture partially or completely inoperative cause damage to the fixture or cause harm to the user or technician This paragraph contains important installation or configuration information Failure to comply with this information may prevent the fixture from functioning correctly KOS Obey 8 User Manual This paragraph contains useful although not critical information 3 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Safety Instructions Please read these instructions carefully which includes important information about the installation usage and maintenance of your fixture e Keep this User Manual for future consultation If you sell the unit to another user be sure that they also receive this instruction booklet e Always make sure that you are connecting to the proper voltage and that the line voltage you are connecting to is not higher than that stated on decal or rear panel of the fixture e This product is intended for indoor use only To prevent risk of fire or shock do not expose fixture to rain or moisture e Make sure there are no flammable materials close to the unit while operating In the event of serious operating problem stop using the unit immediately Never try to repair the unit by yourself Repairs carried out by unskilled people can lead to damage or malfuncti
17. t button at the same time All LEDs will flash indicating successfully removal from the DMX channel Press and hold lt PATCH gt for five seconds to exit the fader assignment mode Notes 7 All physical faders can be re assigned to output on a different DMX channel Faders are given a channel number and are labeled on the surface of the controller as such You may assign multiple DMX channels to a single fader You may select the lt PAGE gt button to select a fader from a different page You may NOT assign a fader to a channel from a different lt FIXTURE gt When you delete the fader assignment of a DMX channel this will completely remove the DMX assignment of the fader It will NOT revert the channel to the defaults 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Programming A chase is a sequence of scenes steps In the Obey 8 eight chases may be created with up to 99 steps per chase Entering program mode Press lt PROGRAMs for five seconds until the program LED indicator remains on This indicates that the controller is in programming mode To exit program mode repeat the step by holding lt PROGRAMS for five seconds until the program LED indicator remains off Create a scene A scene is a static lighting state There are eight scenes available total Action amp Enter program mode Select a lt FIXTURE gt to program Compose a look by moving the lt FADERS gt Changes in fixture attribute such as colors
18. temperature ooooocccconcccnnconccononcnonnnanananoncnonan cnc nana nan nnon nn cana n na nnn ana nannn no 113 F 45 C CONTROL amp PROGRAMMING Data Output cant ii Data pin configuration Protocols eee ORDERING INFORMATION Obey 8 Controller tex ind ie ned Sine AA ne SA ie EN WARRANTY INFORMATION Wai a eeeestevenaagueases CHAUVET 2009 All Rights Reserved Information and specifications in this user manual are subject to change without notice locking 3 pin XLR female socket pin 1 shield pin 2 pin 3 USITT DMX512 A CHAUVET assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or inaccuracies that may appear in this document Obey 8 User Manual 17 3 4 2010 3 12 PM
19. udio sensitivity level Used with the Run Strobe Speed fader to activate modify the strobe function Used to provide a momentary output of the DMX channel to 100 255 6 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Product Overview rear panel DMX polarity select DMX OUT DC INPUT POWER 2 1 1 Ground 1 Ground on zihr mau ata atar DC12Y 600mA aus 17 18 19 20 21 Item Button or Fader Function 17 Back panel sticker Shows the rear panel connections switches and their function 18 DMX polarity switch Used to change signal polarity 19 DMX output connector DMX control signal output 20 DC Input jack Main DC power input 21 Power On Off switch Used to power on off the controller Obey 8 User Manual 7 3 4 2010 3 12 PM 3 SETUP Setting up the System Mounting 1 Place the Obey 8 on a level surface 2 Plug the AC to DC power supply into the system back panel and into the mains outlet 3 Plug in your DMX cable s to your fixture as described in the respective fixture s manual For a quick overview of DMX see the DMX Primer section Orientation This fixture may be mounted in any safe position provided there is adequate room for ventilation Rigging When selecting an installation location consider access and routine maintenance Never mount the controller in places where it may be exposed to rain high humidity extreme temperature changes or restricted ventilation Fixture Linking You will need a seri
20. urrent step in the chase If multiple chases are selected they will play back in sequential order You may select a fixture and override any scene or chase playing back at any time When power is first turned ON the controller will be in Auto mode Action amp 1 Press lt MODE UP gt to select Auto mode 2 Select the lt CHASE gt to run 3 Adjust the lt RUN STROBE SPEED gt fader to adjust the speed at which the chase will playback 4 Adjust the lt FADE TIME gt fader to adjust the transition of the chase from one step to another Obey 8 User Manual 13 Notes 7 In the Auto mode programs will be triggered by controllers fade and speed time as set on the faders This mode does not affect the scenes They will still operate separately in an LTP last takes priority operation The LED display will note the current step in the chase If multiple chases are selected they will play back in sequential order The Fade Time fader will add time to the playback of the chase You may use lt STEP DEL gt to manually move forward to the proceeding step in the chase You may select a fixture and override any scene or chase playing back at any time 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Manual run scene Action 1 Select a lt SCENE gt 2 The respective LED will remain lit on while the scene is activated 3 If desired multiple scenes may be activated 4 Press the respective lt SCENE gt a second time
21. ys Always dry the parts carefully after cleaning them Never spin a fan using compressed air Obey 8 User Manual 15 3 4 2010 3 12 PM Returns Procedure Claims Returned merchandise must be sent prepaid and in the original packing call tags will not be issued Package must be clearly labeled with a Return Merchandize Authorization Number RMA Products returned without the RMA will be refused Call CHAUVET and request an RMA prior to shipping the fixture Be prepared to provide the model number serial number and a brief description of the cause for the return Be sure to pack fixture properly any shipping damage resulting from inadequate packaging is the customer s responsibility As a suggestion proper UPS packing or double boxing is always a safe method to use CHAUVET reserves the right to use its own discretion to repair or replace product s If you are given an RMA please include the following information on a piece of paper inside the box 1 Your name 2 Your address 3 Your phone number 4 The RMA 5 A brief description of the symptoms Damage incurred in shipping is the responsibility of the shipper therefore the damage must be reported to the carrier upon receipt of merchandise It is the customer s responsibility to notify and submit claims with the shipper in the event that a fixture is damaged due to shipping Any other claim for items such as missing component part damage not related to shippin

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