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The LisaTalk Report Premiere Issue September, 1985

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1. Making the LaserWriter work from 7 7 is technically easy The laser fonts are already in your Lisa 7 7 font file Developing the software would be easier than it was for the Mac from a technical point of view From a political point of view that s another story GENERAL THIRD PARTY SUPPORT 63 Guice Lewis What about you other developers out there what kind of on going support do you plan on giving Lisa Mac XL Users 66 Guice Lewis Our company prides ourselves on our Lisa support and we will continue to support the product as long as one exists 70 Guice Lewis We would be more than willing to discuss handling some of the Lisa support for Apple Things such as upgrades product info and on site consulting 67 Reitberger Fred For all developers InterSol has contact with over 3000 Lisa owners If you have a product or service for Lisas PLEASE let me know Just call 1 800 HELP OUT THIRD PARTY SUPPORT AST RESEARCH INC ALTHOUGH LISA MAC XL MEMBER OF APPLE FAMILY IS BEING DISCONTINUED WE DEFINITELY WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT WITH THE RAMSTAK IN FACT WE ARE LOOKING INTO ADDITIONAL PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE OF USE TO THE LISA MAC XL OWNERS 581 Ingram Gary I am very glad to see that AST is still on the go ahead with the big stacks of RAM for LISA As we all grow into power users more and more of us are going to need at extra power 87 Hart Richard Jain not only do I think you have done a fa
2. Bob Boyle 2c e eR eR RE ea RR RD Brock Software Was busy preparing for local computer show Bill Leineweber 2 000 Videx Software Staff would not be available Jim Stephans 0 0 eee ee eee Jet Propulsion Laboratories Will be in Japan Will be in Japan Mike Gabrielson ooooooooooomooo o oo Semaphore Signal Felt LisaTalk concept was beating a dead horse Robert Woodhead o ooo oooooooooooooo Registered Lisa Developer Something unexpected came up John C Dvorak eee eee InfoWorld Magazine S F Examiner Reason unknown 5 NetWorkers Central The following entries are brief LisaTalk Participant Biographies as provided by individual participants Please do not hesitate to discuss your responsibilities further throughout the LisaTalk forum Also we have specifically not provided your address and or phone number s in these biographies in order that you may do so at your discretion throughout the forum NOTE Some addresses have been provided in this transcript as requested by those individuals listed 6 NetWorkers Central Mr George Por 42463rd Street Oakland CA 94609 Phone 415 655 8921 George is editor of the NETWEAVER an electronic newsletter published by the Electronic Networking Association telecommunications editor of the Bay Area Computer Currents author of a forth coming book on Macintosh telenetworking and member of Metasystem
3. RamStak is a trademark of AST Research Inc By Gary Ingram Environments is located somewhere between Lisa and Macintosh With all of the great new magazines now out devoted to the Macintosh it is hard not to feel a bit left out of the mainstream If however you feel as I do that the Lisa Mac XL is the only serious business machine that Apple has ever pro duced you can allow yourself to gloat a bit over those Mac owners that are con stantly plagued with too little memory lack of a good hard disk system the tiny keyboard without the 10 key the closed architecture the itsy bitsy screen and on and on and on The Macintosh just can t compete with the Lisa Mac XL in the business world Apple in a recent internal memo wrote Even though Apple is not building any more XL machines the dire reports m the media of the XL demise are exaggerated XL owners have an excellent machine that will probably not be matched by new Macintosh hardware until well into 1986 or even later The way things are going even later would get my vote The day that Apple announced that Lisa had been discontinued I started calling around to the computer dealers in the area to find out who had the latest version of the 2 10 upgrade for the Lisa I had a 2 5 at the time If the Lisa was not going to be available anymore I was determined to get as much as I could into this machine before the supply dried up I wasn t the only one either All of a sud den t
4. So now we heard of Apple s support as far as servicing Lisa Mac XL through Apple s dealer base The quality of this support is still something to see I guess it will be rather uneven due to dealers uneven profit margins on service jobs When can we expect the Migration package and debugging Mac Works and Lisa 7 7 76 Hart R THIS is Richard Hart in San Francisco I am not happy with what I have heard so far from Apple regarding migration for Lisa users I will not give up Lisa power especially with my AST RAMstack 2 MB until something equivalent is available At the time it is available I expect Apple to help me migrate Mere file translation is unacceptable 120 Morrison Harvey WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOFTWARE TO CONVERT MAC TO 7 7 AS WELL 134 Hart R The most crushing blow to me as a writer was that THINK TANK was not developed for Lisa So I use THINK TANK 512 under MacWorks to develop long scripts and even book length documents The problem is How will the migration package help me put this stuff into LisaWrite Harvey Morrison has a good point here checker is the best there ever was But can I get to migrate BOTH ways with text 125 Reitberger Fred For those that are interested in moving information from Mac to Lisa There is a tool that is floating around Apple that allows the cutting and pasting into a joint scrapbook between Lisa and Mac The word I heard was that it WILL NOT be a product because people
5. users of Lisa and Mac XL computers Joan also designs amp implements day to day program templates on Lisa 7 7 and Omnis 3 as data management chief and consultant for small bussness users for The NetWorkers 16 NetWorkers Central Mr Gordon Stubbs Lisa Mac XL Chairman Washington Apple Pi Users Group 5414 Juliet Street Springfield VA 22151 Gordon is responsible for membership meetings and review of articles on Lisa or Mac XL for publication in monthly meetings Washington Apple Pi was founded in 1978 and has grown to over 7 000 participating members mainly from Northern Virginia District of Columbia and Maryland and now all over the world Mr Harvey Morrison Executive Director John Lopresti Technical Support Marin Conservation Corp The Marin Conservation Corp is a non profit conservation and youth employ ment agency for which Harvey has planning and purchasing authority for its 2 Lisas and 1 Macintosh Harvey and John are also representatives of the Ken Silverman Apple 32 Users Group 17 NetWorkers Central Ms Mary Cadloni Editorial Assistant Personal Computing Mary uses 1 of 3 Lisas at Personal Computing She prepares reviews and the questions and answers in the Answer Column and organizes the staff using LisaWrite Her office also uses LisaTerminal to send files to New Jersey Other responsibilities include testing Macintosh software for compatibility with Lisa Mary also owns here own Lisa at home
6. Guice Lewis Please respond to Stephanie s questions she s asking are there serious business users out there and do you want support 146 Guice Lewis WHAT WE MIGHT TRY DOING IS REITERATING WHAT WE USE OUR LIS AS FOR 147 Barnum Tom I am a serious business user in real estate that needs large database integration that is the rea son I bought the Lisa compatible w Macintosh software I was told before I bought this sys tem that it would be continued December 84 only to have the end user line discontinued one week after purchase after a hard disk failure and a memory board failure immediately after the Annual Stockholder s meeting that announced Mac XL i found this promising with the exception of a reduced 1000 price and that my system was only 512k and would not sup port Lisa 7 7 which I was not provided with on purchase the announcement by Apple that the Lisa was to be discontinued was the final blow I feel that Support or support has been less than Poor and quite frankly that Apple defrauded the public while notifying support product manufacturers and software developers not to proceed with a Lisa based Mac com patible product does anyone else share this feeling I am pursuing a course of action w Apple raising my voice for support and fairness I will pursue lawsuit if necessary Someone mentioned class action suit in a Plug meeting this past February with Stephanie pre sent particularly if Apple d
7. Megabytes Earlier I mentioned that the Office System and the Finder use all of the extra memory automatically Be advised that Macintosh programs this applies only to the latest versions of MacWorks and the Finder That means MacWorks 3 0 or better XL and Finder 4 1 or better Also versions of Apple s Switcher ear lier than 3 0 will hang up the machine under certain conditions when you try to use the full 2 MB AST makes available software utilities to modify earlier versions of MacWorks 1 0 2 0 etc so that they see the extra memory but I strongly advise forgetting about anything but the latest version of MacWorks 3 0 which requires no modification whatever Finder 4 1 and all of Apple s applications use the extra memory with no prob lem But some other programs Version 1 0 of THINK TANK 512K for exam ple don t see the extra RAM However AST had the integrity to contact soft ware publishers to insure compatibility so the situation is improving For example Living VideoText released Version 1 1 of THINK TANK 512K which uses ALL of the RAM beautifully Joys You know what is a great feeling Pulling down About the Finder and hav ing the Finder tell you that you have 1 8 MB free memory Or setting up a RAMdisk and seeing the little slide switch tell you have up to 1 841k of free RAM Since even the Finder can be an application under the Switcher you can set up a Switcher configuration that creates a 1 MB RAMdisk
8. Mr John C Dvorak Journalist InfoWorld and The S F Examiner Mr Joe Kroeger Editor ICON Newsletter Sunnyvale CA 94087 408 732 9988 As Editor for ICON Newsletter a publication of the Ken Silverman Apple 32 User Group and as Owner of Elkhorn Associates a technical consulting company Joe performs his word pro cessing spreadsheeting and graphics work using both MacWorks and 7 7 on his Lisa Mr Dan Farber Associate Editor MacWorld Magazine 555 De Haro Street San Francisco CA 94107 415 861 3861 Dan utilizes one Lisa and one Mac XL mostly using MacWorks 18 NetWorkers Central LisaTalk Forum Copyrights The Press other LisaTalk Participants or anyone else cannot duplicate or publish this entire transcript of the LisaTalk Forum without the written permission of The NetWorkers The NetWorkers maintains ownership of the copyrights to the LisaTalk Forum in light of this com pany s significant investment of on4ine time and labor If the Press or other LisaTalk participants wish to reproduce or utilize any portion of infor mation discussed in the LisaTalk Forum in any form or by any means electronic or mechan ical including photocopying recording or by any information storage or retrieval system they must show that 1 The NetWorkers owns the copyrights to the LisaTalk Forum 2 The LisaTalk Forum was held in cooperation with the Peninsula Lisa Users Group and 3 The LisaTalk Forum was held on Infomedia Corporat
9. RamStak has been tested with the Lisa Office System version 2 0 and is compatible without software modifications if used by itself RamStak adds the memory that you need for your Lisa up to 2 MBytes RamStak from AST Research is the easy plug in memory expansion board for your Lisa Macintosh XL The board makes it possible for professional users to configure their Lisa systems with up to two megaybytes of memory With a RamStak you can fully utilize not only the Lisa 7 7 and MacWorks XL operating environments but also multi user multitasking applications and operating systems such as Unix and Xenix The additional memory allows user friendly interfacing and versatility in word processing business graphics communications databas es and various other applications for business users Because RamStak uses 256K DRAMs it has the ability to address Lisa s two megabyte maximum user memory configuration Therefore you may start with a 512K board and add additional memory as needed The board is socketed for easy field upgrading and all memory is fully parity checked and compatible with your existing Lisa memory Like all AST products RamStak helps you get the most out of your personal computer The board starts with the latest technology has a one year warranty and comes We le Apples pov I T with the AST Plus our unsurpassed reputation for quality reliability and after the sale ED support Conta
10. THIS IS ASH JAIN AGAIN JOINING ME IS MARY SATO SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MARKETING OF APPLE ENHANCEMENT PRODUCTS AT AST BOTH OF US WOULD LIKE TO THANK LEWIS AND ROXANE AT NETWORKERS FOR THEIR HELP THROUGHOUT THE DAY TO GET US ON THE AIR AND GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS EVENT l ARDON THE SPELLING ERRORS WE KNOW SOME OF YOU LOGGING ON HI STEPHANIE 43 Ingram Gary Hi Fred I ve been pretty busy here with the new Helix agreements and building a business system that will work on this thing I hope 460 Ingram Gary Hi stephanie I wasn t able to contact you by voice line this week so how are you 42 Sabsay Daniel Hello everybody This is Daniel Sabsay from Berkeley California a little overcast and cool here I am a Macintosh developer with a few friends who have Lisas not present here or now we see today I am concerned about conversion of Lisa files that I have on ice and porting of the Pascal development environment over to the Mac 44 Graner Rob GOOD EVENING ALL MY NAME IS ROB GRANER WE ARE IN LONG BEACH CA ONALISA 2 5 I HAVE WITH ME MATT AND BARBARA GRANER 47 Farber Dan HELLOMY NAME IS DAN FARBER I M THE ASSOCIATE EDITOR AT MACWORLD MAGAZINE I M INTERESTED IN ANY COMMENTS REGARDING THE LISA DEMISE THAT WE COULD SHARE WITH OUR READERS 57 Graner Rob DAN AS AN END USER OF THE LISA COMPUTER I FEEL THAT THE TECHNOLOGY GAINED WAS REMARKABLE AND REVOLUTIONARY WE ARE SAD TO SEE I
11. YEAR WITH AN OPTION TO PURCHASE AN ADDI TIONAL YEAR AT A NOMINAL CHARGE FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY DAFAX IS OFFERING A TRADE IN OF 150 FOR YOUR OLD APPLE MEMORY BOARD ON A 1 5 amp 2MB UPGRADE UP GRADE TO 2 M IB MB RAMSTAK UPGRADE List Price 1495 DAFAX PRICE 895 1 5 MB RAMSTAK UPGRADE List Price 2095 DAFAX PRICE 1095 2 MB RAMSTAK UPGRADE List Price 2695 DAFAX PRICE 1295 REMEMBER THE ABOVE PRICES ARE BEFORE TRADE IN FAX PROCE NG CORP 14 NORTH VE 8 MALBA NEW YORK 11357 718 746 8220 10AM 2 PM EST ADDITIONAL MEMORY INSTALLED AND TESTED BY DAFAX acintosh XL and Lisa are trademarks of Apple Computer Inc RamStak is a trademark of AST Research Inc RamStalk By AST Research Inc 2121 Alton Avenue Irvine CA 92714 714 476 3866 RamStak from AST Research Inc the easy plug in expandable memory board for your Macintosh XL Lisa Now you can fully ut
12. amp Consulting Service 3500 Market Street Ste 103 San Francisco CA 94131 415 550 1710 Lewis founder and President of The NetWorkers has a strong back ground and experience in high level retail and corporate sales and marketing in the computer industry He is widely known for his expertise e in Apple s family of 32 16 Bit Lisa Macintosh and Mac XL computers Lewis co founded the Peninsula Lisa Users Group to enhance his support of Lisa customers during employment with Computer Connection of San Francisco Mr Alex Hoag Vice President Sales Blyth Software 2655 Campus Drive Suite 150 San Mateo CA 94403 Alex has been with Blyth Software formerly Organizational Software Corp since its inception in September 1984 His specialty is Mac development specifically with screen interface background design As well Mex responsibilities have included handling technical support for the Lisa as related to Omnis 2 amp 3 relational database programs and most Lisa development ambitions are funneled through Alex Blyth is currently working on a multi user version for the XL Serve network by Infosphere 9 NetWorkers Central Mr Ash Jain Director of Independent Business Unit AST Research Inc Irvine CA 92714 714 863 1333 Ash directs AST s Independent Business Unit which is chartered to develop manufacture market and sell enhancement products for all Apple computers Products include Multi IO multi function card
13. and loads your seven favorite applications plus the Desktop from a hard disk automatically when ever you turn your machine on Better yet you could get by with a Lisa XL with NO hard disk Think about it with 2 MB of memory and the Switcher configuration above you can leave your computer turned on day and night and use the built in disk drive only for file storage Everything else happens light ning fast For 7 7 Office System users the joy is in the shortened wait to go from win dow to window among different applications And in much larger documents residing in memory But why would you want a 400 page novel in memory at Support I cannot say enough about AST telephone support AST has become one of the top three producers of add on boards for IBM clone PCs Its engineers and sales people take your calls personally and treat you as an intelligent friend This is particularly true of Ash Jam in charge of the Independent Business Unit Apple division AST Research Inc Microprocessors Unlimited Conroy LaPointe 2121 Alton Avenue 24000 South Peoria Avenue 120605W Garden Pl Irvine CA92714 Beggs OK 74421 Portland OR 97223 714 476 3866 918 267 4961 800 547 1289 GIVE YOUR MACINTOSH XL OR LISA AST S RAMSTAK P O W E R R R ITH AST S RAMSTAK MEMORY BOARD THE BOARD FITS INTO MEMORY LOT 1 OR 2 PROVIDING UP TO 2MB OF MEMORY OR 1 5MB ADDITIONAL IF YOU KEEP ONE OF YOUR APPLE BOARDS BOARDS AND MEMORY ARE GUARANTEED FOR ONE
14. are ONLY interested in going to Macs not the other way How am I DOING John Dvorak 133 Ingram Gary I have used the Scrapbook and it works very well if you don t over load the RAM And if you need an Industrial Strength Spelling Checker you can use it to bring Mac documents into LisaWrite check the spelling and then go back the other way to Mac 139 Morrison 11arvey I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF FRED OR ANYONE ELSE KNOWS HOW TO GET A HOLD OF THE MAC TO LISA SOFTWARE 142 Guice Lewis The NetWorkers has the Mac to Lisa Software 165 Day John There is no question that switcher is not true multi tasking the question or perhaps the answer is that the best alternative is to have BOTH the Lisa and Mac available and to be able to send things from Lisa to Mac or from Mac to Lisa I for one would like to see Apple develop a bi direc tional Migration package Who else agrees with me 174 Guice Lewis The NetWorkers 175 Schmucker Kurt A bi direction conversion package would be quite useful 178 Guice Lewis We have a bi directional package 164 Schmucker Kurt how do I get the Mac to Lisa conversion software that the Networkers has 168 Guice Lewis Our Phone Number is 415 550 1710 for Lisa to Mac and back 177 Littell Stephanie Thanks for the Birthday Congratulations Re Migration Kit There is no plan to extend the Migration Kit to handle transfers from Macintosh to Lisa The
15. diskette I ve found that 3 is the magic number here If you repair it 3 times you ve retrieved all of the stolen blocks that you ever will more repairs don t seem to get any more back If you haven t ever done a repair the Office System Manual tells how If you have the MacWorks 3 0 installed on your hard disk a disk devoted to Mac Only a Shared disk must be started with the diskette and if you ve tried to play any of the games out for the Mac in MacWorks and had trouble getting them to or just couldn t get them to open from the hard disk window it s because some of the Mac games are designed to boot only as the start up disk in a Mac The XL can however be forced to ask for a start up diskette instead of always defaulting to the hard disk after you turn it on If the XL is off turn it on and as soon as it gets finished checking the last board in the start up sequence the fourth click Push the Option key and hold it down Timing is important here If you push the Option key too soon you will get the Lisa start up choices dialogue box not the little diskette icon If you are just a little slow it will default to the MacWorks hard disk If you have those catlike reflexes the XL owners are famous for you ll soon see a diskette icon with a flashing question mark in it Put in your diskette and away you go If it s early or late or Monday or Friday and your reflexes were more sloth like than catlike you ll be in the hard dis
16. fellow Lisa users we are not alone Comments from some of the people here Tricia Here I agree that the militant attitude is the last sort What I like about the possibility of a continuing con ference that we can be productive instead of complaining That s why Stephanie s presence is so important I d love to see this go on At a reasonable cost I meant last resort Thanks for everyone s effort to putting this event on 212 Dickey Joan Tricia here I would agree with the person who indicated that Apple has taken certain actions about the Lisa that have led to a certain lack of faith Yes we re going to go on with what we have but I want Apple to know that I believe their word less and I don t think I m alone They indicated a public commitment to a machine which was not substantiated by their next actions and seemed uncaring about the investments that people had made based on their state ments of commitment I think that this is what upset people the most And also the Lisa is a great tool and is still amazing and useful in our lives Does that state it well you guys Tricia Dines 210 Day John For everyone here at Washington Apple Pi I would like to thank the NetWorkers for putting For the info of those who are connected tonight I have had a group of ten or so people with me tonight and so has Gordon Stubbs making our two connections service as many of our members as possible We think that Apple has been very coop
17. for Apple IIe RamStak memory add on card for Lisa Mac XL MicroStore hard disk tape backup sub system for Apple IIe Mr David D Redhed Owner Organizer The DeskTop Junction The ToolKit Users Group 712 35th Avenue Seattle WA 206 325 9670 As owner organizer of the DeskTop Junction David gathers product info for Lisa users and publishes the information for subscribers David also founded the ToolKit Users Group after Apple dropped Lisa support David also performs consulting under the name of Clear Skies Consulting 10 NetWorkers Central Mr Fred Reitberger Vice President Intersol Corporation 75 Hancock Braintree MA 02184 617 848 7222 Intersol Corporation maintains the TechniCall Support Hotline a subscription service offering individualized solutions by telephone 6 days a week for Apple IL Lisa and Macintosh computer users formerly the Apple Hotline Mr Kurt J Schmucker Member of the Professional Staff Productivity Products International Kurt is author of The Complete Book of Lisa Harper amp Row 84 the only book about the 7 7 software as well as Object Oriented Programming on the Apple Macintosh Hayden 85 Kurt owns 3 Lisa s amp 1 Mac XL Kurt is also a toolkit developer and instructor for courses in object oriented Programming Lisa Toolkit Clascal MacApp Smalltalk Object Pascal PPI is a registered Mac Developer and beta test site now moving its Objective C programming lang
18. like to say how helpful Apple was over the last few months as we put XL Serve together especially Stephanie A lot of the remarks here are directed towards 7 7 and problems of migration to the Mac envi ronment XL Serve was designed to ease that migration by providing much of the system level support for 7 7 to the MacWorks environment In conjunction with the products that are now coming Out for the Mac we think it makes a friendlier and more productive machine We would also like to say that Apple has fixed every bug we found in MacWorks while we were in development The production release has been very robust The new hard disk installer 1s a great improvement THIRD PARTY SUPPORT BLYTH SOFTWARE 203 Guice Lewis Alex of Blyth Software Can you tell us what you are doing in terms of support for The Mac XL Alex what about developments with XL Serve This is very significant Note 46 From Hoag A To Guice Lewis Blyth software has all but stopped Lisa develop ment The Mac market is absorbing all our efforts at present We are maintaining code files so that we could migrate the Mac product to the desktop but the returns for that development seem to be less than other projects Note 47 From Hoag A To Guice Lewis We have talked with Infosphere about creating an XL serve multi user partition for Omnis 3 and are awaiting details of their development plans It seems that that kind of development is really more Mac th
19. through the dealers such as the latest version of MacWorks MacWrite and MacPaint regarding the new enhancements Perhaps a MacWrite document to accompany the update which can be copied by the user and printed Out or simply read on the screen would work 113 Guice Lewis What about the inconsistencies of the internal ROMs of the Lisa As you all know the changes from D H A and on and on have created some very freaky bugs Steph Joan makes a good point Apple s definition of support is Let the dealer handle it Let the dealer contact users about updates Let the dealer inform buyers what H 88 ROM means etc If the user is in the dark Apple shrugs and says Well it ain t our fault We told the dealer The story of the Lisa has been one long litany of this kind of support Lisa users weren t mailed notification of ROM changes bugs updates etc When you say We will con tinue to support do you mean The Same Old Support 160 Littell Stephanie Re ROM versions The ROM for the Macintosh XL Lisa 2 10 should be H 88 The ROM version for the Lisa 2 with external hard disk should be H A8 These parts can be ordered by dealers 138 Cadloni Mary I WAS THE SUPPORT INDIVIDUAL AT LIVING VIDEOTEXT AND THE NEW 512 VERSION OF THINK TANK STILL HAS SOME BUGS BECAUSE OF THE VERSIONS OF MACWORKS YOU USE WILL BE DEPENDENT ON THE COMPUTER CRASHING YOUR FILES AS ANOTHER THE AUTHOR OF THE THINK TANK BOOK FOR THE IBM BY
20. users use external Profiles on the Mac desk top MANY of us feel that this is a gross oversight since we want to be able to use BOTH the Lisa software and the Mac software and one 10 meg hard disk doesn t have the space for 7 7 the Workshop and Omnis 3 on the Lisa side and still have much if any room for Mac stuff I can tell you that a partitioned 10 meg hard disk is not the right answer People like Kurt Schmucker Gordon Stubbs and myself have more than one Profile and would like to be able to use them two or more at a time on the Mac side of the house When oh when will MacWorks let us use Profiles attached to the parallel interface card 109 Ingram Gary I agree with John Day in his comment about the overlooking of the use of the external pro files with the MacWorks Even with the 10 MB disk and a Profile on the Parallel there isn t enough room to develop an effective business control system if you plan to use the Apple Talk 112 Morrison Harvey WE AGREE WITH DAY S COMMENTS ABOUT MAC WORKS 1 HAVE FOUND OUR VERSION UNSATISFACTORY WE WERE VERY ANGRY ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO USE THE PROFILE 95 Dickey Joan consider publishing a maintenance manual for Lisa and XL owners with full hardware specs including schematics or provide some sort of network or data center where a user can call for this information if service is needed There is also some concern regarding the availability of parts and the mechanism Apple will u
21. you not yet said 181 Redhed David Lest I forget or run out of time Thank you very much NetWorkers Lewis please send me all the info you have on your services to Lisa XL people I would be more than happy to give you a plug in MACazine 176 Ingram Gary I don t share in the Militant attitude toward Apple that seems to persist in some circles that feel they haven t been treated with kid gloves In the two years that I have been a Lisa And a Mac user I have had very good support from Apple in the software dept The I see it seems to start at the dealer who didn t tell you that the 7 7 didn t work on a 512 Lisa and 80 of the hardware problems ie power supplies and blown boards are the fault of the power company and the user for not protecting his equipment from dirty power 190 Cadloni Mary I AGREE WITH GARY 187 Graner Rob DAN SEND ME A NOTE ON NETWORKERS ABOUT PACKAGE ROB 197 Morrison Harvey JOHN ANDI WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU LEWIS AND NETWORKERS FOR ORGANIZING AND PUTTING THIS TOGETHER OUR SPECIAL THANKS TO ROXANE FOR HER SPECIAL EFFORTS BOTH ON THE PHONE AND BY MAIL TO ENSURE OUR PARTICIPATION 200 Sabsay Daniel Thank you all and especially Joan and Roxane I must leave now 201 lain Ash Thanks Stephanie Happy Birthday Also John I ll be into touch with you regarding the July 13th meeting Ash amp Mary 202 Ingram Gary I too want to thank the Networkers for the
22. 2 User DISCUSSION t Sa chat ad LE RR UR oa RA CR ida 22 Users Tips About Available Software Etc 0 0 0 0 0 eee eee 24 General Third Party Support 2 1 0 0 0 25 Third Party Support AST Research Inc 25 Third Party Support Infosphere Inc 0 0 00 e eee ee eee 27 Third Party Support Blyth Software Corp llle 27 Third Party Support Productivity Products Intl o o oooooooooooo o o 28 Regarding Priam Hard Disk o o o oo ocooooccococooooocc eee 29 Unanswered Questions eee hse 29 Ways Users Are Using Lisa s MacXE S eeeeeeee eA 30 Involvement Within A Regular On Line LisaTalk Forum 31 Closing Comments aulas isaac 33 SOFTWARE REVIEW RamStak AST Research INC o oo ooocooooo mo 38 PRODUCT INFORMATION RamStak AST Research Inc o o oo 42 ENVIRONMENTS Handy Tricks By Gary Ingram isses sees 47 PERSPECTIVE By Lewis Guice Our society has traditionally maintained a habit of regarding our elderly as unproductive burdensome and in the way perhaps now more than ever At the same time other cultures of the world continue to place great value on and share great respect for their elders as wise and honorable members of the society to be cherished even long after death What I suggest is that our society s attitudes and behaviors about its elders has undoubtedly affected our society in various oth
23. 2 095 00 2 MB for 2 695 00 The smaller than 2 MB boards have the chip holders for more memory already soldered on they re just empty So if you re willing to install your own chips you can save lots of money by buying the smallest version from AST Since no soldering or special tool is required installation is a snap Well maybe not snap you want to avoid bending off the little prongs on the memory chips Just be careful Buy only 256K bit chips certified for a minimum access time of 150 nanosec onds Conroy LaFointe address below sells the right ones in a 9 pak for 79 95 This gives you enough for 256K bytes 8 bits for each byte plus a parity bit It works out to about 360 per MegaByte And Microprocessors Unlimited address below sells them for half that price The instructions that come with the RamStak are very simple with clear dia grams and illustrations Seriously you can do the whole installation with just your fingers in less than 5 minutes Cautions Don t be fooled by a 1 MegaByte upgrade in an ordinary Macintosh it s not the same thing A non XL Macintosh can ONLY access 1 2 Megabyte as by the Switcher Only the Lisa XL was built to address more than 1 2 MB directly What about adding 4 MB 2 MB in each slot It won t work Even though the Lisa XL s CPU the Motorola 68000 is capable of directly addressing 16 MB Apple crippled these machines in hardware so that they can address a maxi mum of only 2
24. ESTMENT IN A SYSTEM THAT MANY CUT LOSSES HOWEVER I AM HERE BECAUSE I PARTICIPATED IN THE TRANSFORMATION OF AN ENTIRE STAFF OF COMPUTER DINOSAURS WITH THE USAAND A PERVERSELOY ALTY TO APPLE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA IF EVEN A PARTIAL SUBSIDY OF THIS CONFERENCING COULD BE OBTAINED 135 Por George OK we have 45 more minutes let s get something done And remember no longer entries than 2 3 of a screen otherwise you risk the possibility that other participants will not read your entry particularly people at 1200 baud VIEWS ABOUT INVOLVEMENT WITHIN A REGULAR ON LINE LISATALK FORUM 116 Por George I don t think that yelling at Apple serves our interests Actually Stephanie is receiving more questions in each minute than can be answered in such a short run And we re getting close to the end of the time slot for this conference Let s start to think of transforming this conference into an ongoing online users group Stephanie would you be interested in participating in the continuation of LisaTalk or making sure that we have somebody from Apple here if the participants decide to maintain this online contact at least once a month 143 Littell Stephanie Let me be quite frank with everybody out there we have just gone through a company restructuring in the last week and we cannot resolve all the issues at this time 152 Por George Stephanie we know about the company restructuring and I assume th
25. Macintoshes on a Xenix multi user accounting word processing and or relational data base management system i Offers software development capabilities i Can run most Macintosh software l Is the most sophisticated microcomputer ever put on the market No matter what anyone says the Lisa is the grandmother of user friendly technology Of course there was the Xerox Star but I don t believe that anyone would disagree that the Lisa was the first significant step towards introducing true computer technology to the masses We are a nation of waves and trends today s wonder is tomorrow S obstruction of progress My fear of this way of thinking is our occasional inability to distinguish the difference between technological and marketeering progress However some of us more romantic types refuse to discard those great innova tions that have somehow enlightened us in our personal and business lives and activities In honor of Lisa I would like to share my predictions of her fate not necessarily in any order 1 AST Research Inc announces a 68020 co processing board which includes all of the necessary technology to make Lisa 100 Macintosh compat ible 2 AST Research Inc announces that the Lisa Mac XL Macintosh Operating System will now take advantage of 4 MegaBytes of Internal Memory 3 Infosphere announces a Multi User Record Locking Disk Management System with multiple disk access for the Lisa Mac XL 4 Blyth Soft
26. NLY ITS STANDARD 512K MEMORY BOARD 239 Guice Lewis Not as well as it should but die same applies to the Macintosh with 512k one meg is certainly needed 244 Stubbs Gordon RB JAZZ WORKS WLLL ON THE LISA S ON MAC WORKS BUT BOMBS ON THE MAC 10 meg reason unknown Just don t use the jazz update program as it then always Bombs USERS TIPS ABOUT AVAILABLE SOFTWARE AND AVOIDING PROBLEMS 108 Graner Rob TO ALL THE NEW JAZZ PACKAGE ACCORDING TO LOTUS MUST BE RUN WITH MAC XL FINISHED PRODUCT AND NOT ANY PRE RELEASE OF MAC XL THE PROGRAM WILL NOT LOAD PROPERLY OR RUN WITHOUT THIS FINAL VERSION USE CAUTION WITH MAC XL WHEN YOU APPROACH 175 200 FILES YOU MAY CRASH THE SYSTEM WITHOUT MUCH PROVOCATION 241 Graner Rob JAZZ IS SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH THE FINAL RELEASE OF MAC XL ON A 512K XL OR LISA 243 Guice Lewis It is the memory constraints that create the problems with intensified usage of Jazz 245 Barnum Tom SCHULTZ HERE IS ANY BUSINESSPERSON OUT THERE USING JAZZ ON THE XL ON LINE IN THEIR JOBS TODAY 247 Graner Rob 19 Jun 85 7 15PM PDT TOM NOT YET BECAUSE WE CAN NOT GET THE FINAL RELEASE OF MAC WORKS XL 136 Barnum Tom Tricia Dines here my question is How hard is it to make it so the the LaserWriter can be accessed from 7 7 if it s not so hard would somebody at least like to say how it might be done I think that this would be valuable Thanks 141 Schmucker Kurt
27. Pi because the average user is very cautious about buying new and often unseen and expensive products The first issue I would like to raise is the issue of continued repair sup port for the Lisa Stephanie can we really expect parts and service to be available in the future and if so for how long and through who 53 Por George Those of us who have not yet specified their reasons and expectations of being here please do so then we can set our agenda and get on with it 82 Morrison Harvey AS A NON PROFIT END USER WE ARE CONCERNED THAT THE CONSIDERABLE CAPITAL INVESTMENT THAT WE HAVE MADE IN LISA EQUIPMENT IS PROTECTED WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF DISKS OF INFORMATION AND DOCUMENTS ALREADY IN 7 7 AND SPENT CONSIDERABLE TIME AND EXPENSE IN THE UPGRADE TO 2 10 OUR MOST RECENT COMPUTER PURCHASE WAS A PC AT THIS WAS OUR REACTION TO APPLES POLICIES HOWEVER OUR LISA IS USED AN AVERAGE OF THREE TIMES THE HOURS THAT THE PC IS WE ARE INTERESTED IN CONTINUED SUPPORT AND UPGRADE OF THE LISA SOFTWARE WITH ITS BETTER OFFICE CAPABILITIES THAN THE MAC 94 Hart R Fred Reitberger may be able to talk a little about the relationship between Steve Jobs wast ing the Apple and what he did to Lisa L for one think Apple is vulnerable to 2 things because of Jobs impetuous and imperial han dling of both cases 1 bad publicity 2 a few law Suits The fact is Apple touted more than 100 developers preparing programs for Lisa almost t
28. SYBEX IS NOW CONSIDERING WRITING A 512K MAC BOOK BUT DOES NOT PLAN ON MENTIONING THE LISA COMPUTER IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS PROGRAM APPLE SUPPORT HARDWARE 49 Ingram Gary One of my major concerns after having been directly affected by it in the Past month is hard ware support for the USA as opposed to the MacXL If 1 trade in my Lisa on a MacXL I lose the parallel port AND have to put up with that irritating green phosphor trace on the new screen Who is handling the USA hardware old or new 56 Jain Ash STEPHANIE WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND TO GARY INGRAM S QUESTION 91 Redhed David Will Apple provide support in the form of information about how to write new printer drivers for Lisa or hardware information that will allow 3rd party developer to do something in a rea sonable way 60 EVREN MARY Is the hardware support of the Lisa going to be handled still via Apple or subcontracted to someone else or just put out to the free enterprise of entrepreneurial computer companies 62 Uttell Stephanie To answer the question on Lisa hardware support As we have said earlier Apple will continue to provide support for the Lisa hardware 75 Reitberger Fred Stephanie I know that Apple s public position is to continue Macintosh XL X Lisa Support BUT three dealers in the Boston area I know are pulling XLs apart just for parts that are not coming from Apple Hard disks are the most scarce and many are wondering jus
29. Scrapbook program that people have mentioned was a VERY early prototype and has never undergone any testing people should use it at their own risk APPLE SUPPORT APPLELINK 110 EVREN MAR Y Question to Apple Will Lisa support information be provided on Applelink As I understand it Applelink will be a network providing support information for the corpo rate offices In Scully s annual address to the stockholders he mentioned an additional net work Dealertalk to provide information to dealers As the focus is now on Mac will these networks then only provide Mac info Or will they also support Lisa Apple e etc 155 Littell Stephanie Re Applelink Applelink does contain information about ALL Apple products including the Lisa Apple Apple and Macintosh USER DISCUSSION 145 Redhed David I believe that Apple is not currently willing to give any significant support to those who would like to make life more tolerable for Lisa users over the next 5 years If no current or future organization is willing to negotiate with Apple about taking over support the only hope that exists lies with the people in this conference If we think it is questionable support now wait until they put out a Mac that is really competitive with Lisa 157 Schmucker Kurt As the person who wrote the book on Lisa it was a very difficult thing for me to make the semi permanent conversion but I have done it and I am glad Ma
30. T GO WITH THE ADVANCEMENT OF BOTH MAC SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE WE BELIEVE THE END USER WILL BOTH BENEFIT AND BE MORE INFORMED WITH NEW SOFTWARE PRODUCTS SUCH AS GEM 52 Cadloni Mary Hello my name is Mary I am the spokesperson at Personal Computing 51 Redhed David This is Dave Redhed up in Seattle waiting to see all this important information about Lisa and the XL 55 Jain Ash HI STEPHANIE THIS IS ASH I M LEAVING THIS SATURDAY AFTERNOON I HOPE 59 Redhed David I m ready 34 Stubbs Gordon We are joining the group from Washington Apple Pi in Rockville Maryland Also here are Tom Warrick our President elect Bernie Urban Editor Will Long plus 5 other members 65 Schmucker Kurt I m ready too 45 Day John Hello I would like to thank the NetWorkers for sponsoring this forum for the greater good of all Lisa XL users Forums such as this are important for all since there is a great deal of confusion about the fate of Lisa owners and their machines Ms Littel has been most helpful with information about the development at Apple of future prod ucts but many of us are still skeptical of continued support Specific issues of concern are numerous Many companies have been helpful to Washington Apple Pi and we appreciate their cooperation Specifically AST Mary Sato and Ash Jam Blyth Software Priam Inc Mark Taber and others too numerous to mention Such help is invaluable to groups like Apple
31. The Lisa lalk Report Premiere Issue September 1985 The LisaTalk Report A Publication of The NetWorkers The premiere issue of The LisaTalk Report is published by The NetWorkers 3500 Market Street Ste 103 San Francisco CA 94131 415 550 1710 The LisaTAIk Report and the NetWorkers are trademarks of The NetWorkers POSTMASTER send address changes to The NetWorkers 3500 Market Street Ste 103 San Francisco CA 94131 The LisaTalk Report is an independent journal not afflicted in any way with Apple Computer Inc All other product names are trademarks of those companies indicated by the possessive Printed in the United States of America Copyright 1985 The NetWorkers All rights reserved The LisaTalk Report Premiere Issue TABLE OF CONTENTS Page Number PERSPECTIVE By Lewis GUICE rA 89 ES iris ii THE LISATALK FORUM desastre 1 Who Participated s aus id ia Rah ee eR Ren UR RH RR Rea 2 LisaTalk Participant Biographies llle 3 LisaTalk Forum Copyrights 0 0 0 eee ee nee een eee 8 Welcome From Moderator ya di se been sew one eek eden e gos 9 Introductions Opening Statements 00 cece eee eee 9 Apple Support MacWorks 0 0 cee ete n 14 Apple Support Hardware 2 0 0 nee etnies 19 Apple Support Lisa 7 7 Migration Package 0 0 00 e eee eee eee 20 Apple Support AppleLink 0 0 0 eee cee eee 2
32. WHAT I MEANT WHAT I DID WANT TO SAY WAS THAT EVEN IF THE LISA OFFICE SYS 3 0 AND MACWORKS XL CANNOT RECOGNIZE MORE THAN 2 MB OF MEMORY WE MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SOFTWARE PATCHES TO CIRCUMVENT THAT HOWEVER I AM EMBARRASSED 93 Cadioni Mary AS A NOTE PROM A CALL I HAD WITH AN APPLE EMPLOYEE THE LISA WILL NOT OR WAS NOT DESIGNED TO SUPPORT 4 MEG 98 Guice Lewis The 68000 will support up to 16 megabytes 99 Sabsay Daniel I think the problem with software Operating System support is the size of tables and bit maps in the OS that provide the memory management services 151 Jam Ash YES AST WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE LISA MAC XL USERS NOT ONLY WITH THE RAMSTAK BUT POSSIBLY OTHER PRODUCTS IN THE FUTURE AS WELL PARTY SUPPORT INFOSPHERE 118 Guice Lewis Can InfoSphere tell us about XL SERVE AND THE DEVELOPMENTS YOU ARE MAKING WITH BLYTH SOFTWARE 122 Baasch David INFOSPHERE has released XL Serve to production and began shipping this week The prod uct does require the production MacWorks XL We have noticed that a lot of Apple offices and dealers do not yet have production MacWorks Our initial release was designed for maximum user reliability we chose not to provide unprotected simultaneous access capabilities We are now planning and working on an upgrade that can support multi user databases such as OMNIS 3 that use controlled access and record locking techniques 149 Baasch David We would
33. a program that won t function on a Lisa Our mem bers are interested in learning what products third party developers are still intending to pro duce 114 Littell Stephanie Let s talk about MacWorks XL The completed version is in the process of being sent to all folks who ordered Macintosh XLs on or after Jan 24 1985 We have met almost all backlog now in fulfilling those orders free of charge Additionally upgrade units are available by mail order dealers have received com plete information regarding the ordering process By the way this is the first official release of MacWorks XL Please be sure that you have obtained the correct version 123 Redhed David Stephanie I received that package from Apple and the MacWorks is not the final I learned this from the local Apple Office who checked the status 124 Guice Lewis What is the rumored 30 dollar charge and does the package have adequate documentation for Mac XL 163 Littell Stephanie Since the Macintosh was released Apple has been trying to focus the attention of developers on the Macintosh environment amp OS Apple does not have the resources to support both the Lisa OS and the Macintosh OS It is also less confusing for customers and developers to sup port 1 environment A lot of users consider the Macintosh XL with MacWorks XL to be an excellent business computer We are using a Macintosh XL right now 186 Littell Stephanie One solution
34. act that there is no additional soft ware coming out for Lisa Some hardware perhaps but no new software Are you going to be content with 7 7 forever The pieces of 7 7 now missing color printing etc will be filled in on Mac Look what the last four months has done for Mac software availability 191 Redhed David I was at developer s conferences in 83 and I think the problems are much deeper than dealers and power supply vendors Apple made some very significant commitments which they did not keep I am enough of a realist to go on from here but I will not accept the idea that Apple is not responsible for some very questionable actions 182 Day John Stephanie I will call you tomorrow again to confirm that you can attend the Washington Apple Pi SigMac and Lisa XL group meetings on the 13th of July start ing at 9 30 AM to be held in the auditorium of Georgetown University here Washington D C The usual attendance at these meetings is 400 600 We also invite any of the rest of you to attend any of our monthly meetings and to come and demonstrate hardware software to our group Please contact me John Day at HOME ANSWERING MACHINE 301 672 1721 HOME ME IN PERSON AFTER 6PM EST 301 621 7543 WORK 8 AM TO 5 PM EST 301 6774641 ask for Captain Day to get more information We look forward to seeing you on the 13th 189 Dickey Joan yes yes yes PLUG participants feel that LisaTalk has been useful in helping us communicate with
35. an specifically XL Note 48 From Hoag A To Guice Lewis We have just finished a version of Omnis 3 that will access up to 4 MB of XL memory Should be released in about 4 weeks along with a couple general enhancements 218 Baasch 1 avid Lewis Alex seems to be gone We have been discussing implementa tion details of adding OMNIS support to XL Serve but no planned release date as of yet 224 Baasch avid Mac XL no longer has a file limitation XL Server s partitions and the new finder that s dis tributed with MacWorks XL take care of the problem in all but the most ridiculous cases THIRD PARTY SUPPORT PRODUCIT PRODUCTS INTERNATIONAL 71 Schmucker Kurt I was developing a new software package for Lisa using the Toolkit a tool for computer security analysis I am now continuing the development ONLY for Mac using the MacApp package the Mac version of the Toolkit 74 Guice Lewis Kurt why did you change your strategy please explain what prompted you to do this 81 Schmucker Kurt My reasons for discontinuing development of the Vague Data Analyzer under the Lisa Toolkit were not in order of importance 1 the size of the installed base of Macs 2 the fact that no one was going to continue support or future development of the Toolkit 3 the existence of Mac App 4 felt like a lone wolf developing a Toolkit program even though the Toolkit is a superb development path There wasn t another Toolki
36. annel what should be attended by the brass I don t speak only of the Lisa Mac XL stuff but new product dis cussions online focus groups online public access press conferees etc 169 EVREN MARY George I think you have made a good point that this type of conference goes a long way to helping people understand the issues inform Apple of the areas people need attended to and future on line meetings of this Sort are very good for all especially Apple I support the sug gestion that Apple pick up the tab on this as I know they are on the Applelink program Thank you Stephanie for your answers and I hope that the shakeup will ultimately be to every one s benefit As the computer field in general is in shakeup sales down it is becoming a buyers market not a sellers market and computer sales reps are having to improve their customer relations to keep their clients I imagine this includes Apple 209 Por George Can t you tell that I m enthralled by the possibilities of computer teleconferencing We people at the Electronic Networking Association have one goal to promote electronic networking in ways that enrich individuals enhance organizations and build global communities I d welcome any suggestions for new innovative computer conferencing applications and inquiries about the Association George Por 415 655 892 CLOSING COMMENTS 179 Por George We have about 20 minutes left please focus on what
37. art R MARY SATO Baasch David Barnum Tom Hoag Alex 20 Jain Ash HELLO MY NAME IS ASH JAIN ANDI M WRITING TO YOU FROM THE IBU ATAST RESEARCH INC IN IRVINE CA 21 Reitberger Fred Hello I m Fred Reitberger from InterSol in Mass InterSol was responsible for the Lisa Hotline under contract from Apple Computer We are still providing service to many Lisa owners under a fee or subscription basis 23 Guice Lewis Hello This is Lewis Guice President of The NetWorkers I want to thank everyone for helping out I m in San Francisco California 25 Guice Lewis I m accompanied by Ms Roxane Schwabe Vice President of The NetWorkers 22 Schmucker Kurt Hello I m Kurt Schmucker from Productivity Products International PPI is a registered developer of Macintosh software I wrote the only book on the Lisa 7 7 package not exact ly a best seller considering recent events I am now finishing a book on object oriented pro gramming on Mac and Lisa a book that will cover both MacApp the Lisa Toolkit and Smalltalk 27 Littell Stephanie Stephanie is accompanied by Larry Rosenstein who worked on the Lisa Toolkit and the 7 7 to Macintosh Migration path software 33 Ingram Gary Hello This is Gary Ingram calling from high atop the infamous Pine Mountain Just 6 miles north of Davenport Calif Davenport It s just north of Santa Cruz 31 EVREN MARY Thank you George I represent I
38. at nobody expects you resolving all the issues at once What I hear here is that people like to be treated 32 as people and your presence here is a good sign If you don t record the whole session I m sure Lewis will be able to provide you with the transcript so that you and or your colleagues will have a chance to review the questions and come back with answers to our next online meeting I believe it will help Apple s public posture shine Everybody please speak up and tell if you want to participate in future online meetings with Apple and other developers and users Lewis and Stephanie is there a chance that Apple can subsidize connect charges or partici pants have to pay all 131 Morrison Harvey WE ARE INTERESTED IN FURTHER PARCIPATION IN SUCH A NETWORK THIS HAS BEEN INFORMATVE IF A BIT SCATTERED SEEMS WE ALL WANT INFORMATION FROM APPLE THANKS STEPHANIE We would consider a once a month forum like this if there is sufficient customer interest We would like to communicate with as many actual Lisa users as possible 137 Guice Lewis The NetWorkers along with InfoMedia are certainly willing to discuss implementing a monthly conference 170 Redhed David I am in for future conferences as long as I can afford it 184 Por George Stephanie if this medium helps to clarify a controversial issue and clear positrons hopes and rumors wouldn t you believe that Apple can use it as a public relation ch
39. bulous job with the 2MB RAM for Lisa and MacWorks by the way it is sensational with the Switcher but I d like to acknowledge pub licly here your support The response and speed on the phone from AST is unheralded 64 Ingram Gary I was just reading in John s mag Infoworld that IBM has now found a way to address 4 MB of memory by Switching They also mentioned that if the Lisa were to do the same that it could address over 60 Megabytes of RAM Does AST have any plans to develop boards like this 73 Jam Ash WE HAVE LOOKED INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO USE 2 RAMSTAKS 4 MEGABYTES IN LISA OBVIOUS PROBLEM TO CIRCUMVENT IS THE NEED TO GENERATE AN EXTRAADDRESS LINE THERE IS A SO ON THAT APPEARS TO BE VIABLE A LITTLE KLUDGY BUT VIABLE HOWEVER BEFORE GOING TOO DEEP INTO IT WE WOULD LIKE TO DETERMINE THE INTEREST LEVEL IN THE LISA COMMUNITY REGARDING THE NEED FOR 4 MEGABYTES OF RAM ANYONE 83 Guice Lewis Ash would the Lisa OS and The Mac OS take advantage of the 4 Meg Card 86 Jain Ash LEWIS IM NOT SURE ABOUT THE LISAAND MAC XL OS USING 4 MB IF THE OS CANNOT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAKE THE SAME APPROACH AS WE DID IN THE MODIFICATION OF MACWORKS 1 0 WHICH COULD ADDRESS ONLY UP TO 1 MB 92 Guice Lewis Ash are you saying that your 4 meg board would only be viable in a Xenix or Unix Environment which would be good for multi user Systems in The Mac Office 96 Jam Ash NO THAT S NOT
40. c now exceeds 7 7 I am using the LaserWriter have many programming languages to choose from for either serious work or just learning I probably wouldn t go back except to use the spell checker 159 Hart R In response to David Redhed s comment if they do release a Mac that is comparable to Lisa l think Apple ought to offer it to Lisa users in some sort of swap Obviously not for free per haps even hundreds of dollars plus your old Lisa After all we ve gotten use from them even if we didn t get the promised software 161 Redhed David Kurt I can t believe what you just said If I had enough money to buy all the software all over again and spruce up a Mac to the point that it matches my Lisas I might agree but even then I think it is a poor trade the switcher is no substitute for multi tasking 162 Hart R Kurt I agree that MacWorks offers a superior environment For my money the best microcomputer system in the world right now is an XL with the AST 2MB RAMstack and Switcher You can put a spreadsheet Word processor Terminal program THINK TANK 512K and 4 other programs into memory at the same time and have room left over for a 1 2 MB RAMdisk It will take IBM 10 years to duplicate that However even though YOU may not go back there are some things which are still only avail able on Lisa Such as color inkjet printing spell checking LisaProject etc Some of us STILL need our Lisa environment 166 Schmuck
41. cWorks similar to the repair Disk routine under Lisa 2 0 3 0 amp 3 1 MacWorks is still very buggy even the XL version which I have had several problems with 204 Littell Stephanie Re Repairing Macintosh Disks There is no facility for repairing Macintosh disks in general ie it is not solely a MacWorks problem 214 Schmucker Kurt I had to repair my Mac disk once It was horrible One of the things I have learned in this con ference though was how lucky I have been I haven t even heard of some of the problems many of you seemed plagued by 223 Littell Stephanie The new Finder version 4 1 was designed to handle large number of files It is also much faster than the previous version All MacWorks users should be using this version of the Finder 227 Graner Rob STEPHANIE THIS IS TRUE BUT WE STILL CRASHED THE SYSTEM USING 4 1 FINDER 229 Littell Stephanie We try to test all software including the Finder extensively We tested the new Finder with 100 s of files over a period of several months If your problem is reproducible then you should mail in a bug report Mail it to Software Resource Center Apple Computer 20525 Mariani Ave MIS 2 P Cupertino CA 95014 230 Baasch David I ve noticed a lot of complaints about MacWorks and Finder problems We ve seen virtually none with the production release and we run three asynchronous background tasks including print spooling If a systems r
42. chines out there but I ll try to cover the majority if you have a specific pet peeve or if one 6f these little gems doesn t work for you let me know and I ll try to find out why Some of us still use the Lisa 7 7 System for most of the big jobs like sched uling word processing spread sheets and drafting things the Mac hasn t quite mastered yet However even the latest version of 7 7 3 1 has a very nervy little bug If you like to leave the disk on to avoid having to boot up whenever you need 1t there is a persistent memory depleting cancer that seems to erode away free blocks for no apparent reason and eventually will lead to problems like the Not Enough Memory dialogue box appearing when you know there s plenty of mem ory there This can be avoided by entering the Environments Window at least twice a week or whenever you are not using the machine To get in you just press down the Apple key and then push the Lisa On Off button You can let up on the Apple button right after you finish with On Off button Lisa will put everything away and transfer to Environments where the dreaded disease can t get at your files From here you can power off restart the Office System set the defaults or restart the disk without shutting down to go into MacWorks all with the Mouse If you find the blocks disappearing in spite of your switching some can t be avoid ed you can get them back by Repairing the disk with the Office System 1
43. ct your local retailer for more information RESEARCH INC Copyright 1985 AST Research Inc Lisa Macintosh XL MacWorks XL and Lisa 7 7 are trademarks of Apple Computer Inc Unix is a trademark of AT amp T Xenix is a trademark of Microsoft Inc RamStak and We make Apples Grow are trademarks of AST Research Inc Q Is RamStak compatible with the Lisa 7 7 A Yes The Lisa 7 7 is compatible with RamStak and will address two megabytes without modification Q Is RamStak compatible with Lisa Pascal Workshop A Yes For Lisa Pascal Workshop version 2 0 AST has the optional RamStak installation diskette which will allow you to modify your BACKUP copy of Workshop to address up to two megabytes of RAM For Lisa Pascal Workshop version 3 0 no modification is necessary Q Is RamStak compatible with Xenix A Yes RamStak has been tested by Santa Cruz Operations and is compatible with their Xenix package RamStak COMPATIBILITY LIST Software The following software packages have been tested with RamStak and will address 2 0 megabytes of RAM MacWorks 1 0 Lisa Office System Lisa 7 7 Lisa Pascal Workshop Xenix FileVision Mac Memory Disk MITE Apple Macintosh XL Lisa MacWorks Lisa Office System Lisa 7 7 and Lisa Pascal Workshop are trademarks of Apple Computer Inc IBM is the trademark of International Business Machines Corp Unix is a trademark of AT amp T Zenix is a trademark of Microsoft Inc
44. d uses LisaWrite to write television scripts LisaCalc to document the show s budget LisaTerminal to communicate with producers to update scripts and LisaDraw to plan the sets shoot loca tions Richard has been a member of the Peninsula Lisa Users Group since its inception in 1984 Mr Gary Ingram President Nite amp Day Wind Systems Gary has been developing and installing alternative energy systems for the last ten years For the last six years he has been directly involved in the development of an inventory control sys tem for a large lumber company on a DEC PDP 11 44 Gary is an energy consultant for such companies as AT amp T PG amp E and Pacific Bell He is the Public Domain coordinator for MacNet News and has been designated as a Beta Tester for the upcoming versions of Odesta Helix He was recently the centerfold in the April issue of MacWorld 14 NetWorkers Central Mr Daniel Sabsay President Cybernetic Moments Cybernetic Moments utilizes three Lisas and several Macs to develop Mac Software One such product is called MacPrompter a program which simulates a teleprompter with smooth scrolling text for public speakers Other products include Macintosh game software and Unix bridge software 15 NetWorkers Central Ms Joan D Dickey President Peninsula Lisa User Group P O Box 133 Moss Beach CA 941038 Recorder 415 728 5462 Co founded Peninsula Lisa Users Group in March 1984 P L U G now represents over 125
45. e POr 5 us id ds Moderator Stephanie pee ds Littell Apple Computer Inc Tom Barnum is aaa eben hee Computer Connection David Baasch 2 0 0 eee eee ee Infosphere Inc Lewis GUCE 2 ee eee The NetWorkers Alex Ho g tt ack hi ee eA a ee Ee AE Blyth Software AS Jar gio oooh A ah ele ME AST Research Inc David D Redhed 0 000000 The DeskTop Junction Fred Reitberger ocos cornard ean na aa eee Intersol Corporation Joan D Dickey are ocuk pui e ai e eae S Peninsula Lisa Users Group Gordon Stubbs ee paee e e e oe eee eee Washington Apple Pi Users Group Harvey Morrison Ked o o o oooooooooooo Silverman Apple 32 Users Group Captain John Day o oooo o ooccocoooooooo o Washington Apple Pi Users Group Rob Gr er A E Graner Oil Richard Harto cio AA bs KPIX San Francisco Gary Ingram llle Nite amp Day Wind Systems Daniel Sabsay 0 0 e eee eee Cybernetic Moments Kurt J Schmucker o ooooooooo Productivity Products International Mary Cadlony i s i peee wie mem te Personal Computing Joe Kroeser 00 nocet fad eae Oh e Re ICON Newsletter Dam Farber veronica MacWorld Magazine Steven JODS iuis gai in ERE Apple Computer Inc Was in Europe John Scully s arde etre wand Apple Computer Inc Reason Unknown Randy Battat ssec Rr Apple Computer Inc Was skeptical about the NetWorkers intentions EllenNold oe iii AA da Apple Computer Inc Reason Unknown
46. eformatted and generally sanitized before the production code s installed and all system files are brought up to current rev we run reliably even on old 2 5 s Production MW s got a great reputation here The only problem is that it s hard to tell what version you have if it hasn t come off Apple disks 111 Redhed David There is a bug in the most recent version of MacWorks which wipes Out part of the prefer ences you set in Lisa 7 7 When will the final MacWorks be sent out Stephanie 95 Dickey Joan On the issue of present problems with Lisa 7 7 and MacWorks Since the ability of the various generations of Lisas to function adequately with MacWorks is dependent upon the type of ROM chips used at the time of manufacture our members feel it would be beneficial to know which versions of MacWorks are compatible with their particu lar computers and would like to see Apple start a program wherein ROM chips that are not compatible would be replaced so that MacWorks will function properly and allow Lisa to access 10 megabyte profiles since at this point some will and some won t Since most of our users are operating in a business environment much distress has been voiced over the fact that both 7 7 and MacWorks bomb frequently and we would like to see this problem addressed On the issue of documentation of system updates Our members would greatly appreciate some written documentation from Apple and or developers when receiving update
47. er Kurt Dave The Switcher is a reasonable kind of multi tasking It takes me no longer to switch between Word and MacDraw than it did for the Lisa to switch contexts from LisaWrite to LisaDraw I can secure a copy of the Scrapbook for you if you will contact Roxane Keep in mind that the Scrapbook is a Dropped program and not supported by Apple After saying that I can say that it works very well and has good on screen help 220 Barnum Tom Geoff Schultz here I really can t understand why my earlier message was edited out I am really disappointed Lewis 222 Guice Lewis DEAR MR SCHULTZ I AM THE LAST PERSON TO BE ACCUSED OF CENSORSHIP PLEASE HIT KEY HVE AND TYPE BARNUM YOU WILL SEE YOUR MESSAGE AND IT IS DOCUMENTED THANK YOU 225 Ingram Gary Look for the Mac Out Back seminars soon We are now converting our 10 acre ranch in the Santa Cruz mountains to a country retreat for mac seminars It should be done in about two months Y all come on up and see us N C 231 Dickey Joan Tricia here Gary what s your phone numbs so we could talk more Also do we need a 4 wheel drive to get there I m at 415 929 6912 234 Ingram Gary Tricia you don t need a 4 Wheel drive to get here although the first time you come up you might wonder why anyone would want to live way out here The PH is 408 425 7636 235 Barnum Tom GEOFF SCHULTZ LEWIS DID YOU SAY THAT JAZZ DOES NOT WORK WITH THE XL WITH O
48. er ways particularly in the ways we approach our everyday personal and business activities and the decisions we make We tend to over emphasize the new and ignore the value of the old You may think my analogy is a little extreme but if you consider the essence of the Lisa phenomena and its impact on computerization you might see my point As a computer salesman in San Francisco shortly after Lisa s introduction I spent endless days and nights with her I was infatuated with the mystique and aesthetic appeal of this technological wonder In fact I started using a mouse and recognized the intrinsic intuitive value of the Lisa Mac XL interface before most had heard of a Macintosh But alas the unfortunate chain of events which led to the demise of the Lisa Mac XL from its parallel introduction with the IBM XT to its creators very poor marketing management and advertising strategies was more than any technological entity could survive Yet the fact still remains that Lisa i Is a mouse driven bit mapped 32 16 bit computer Has a 12 inch monitor di Has a built in numeric key pad Can simultaneously reside several operating systems from Lisa to Xenix and Mac on her hard disk all being accessible with very little effort 5 Is incredibly easy to use i Is incredibly easy to repair l Is incredibly easy to expand i Is physically capable with little effort and at any moment to be i Is physically capable of addressing six
49. erative in almost every respect and that Stephanie 5 presence here speaks well for Apple s desire to try and satisfy our needs As I told her the last time we talked I understand that time marches on The Lisa XL _could n t last forever like the series HA HA however know exactly how and when we will get new goodies We must have new MacWorks versions when the new ROMs come out for the Mac Comments 232 Guice Lewis THANKS EVERYBODY 26 Por George Thank you everybody for the participation and thank you Lewis and Roxane for inviting me to moderate LisaTalk It was a great experience and I m looking forward the continuation Please log out now or hit 3 at the next ACTION prompt to select The Networkers activity if you want to have a look at the home11 of MacNet Networkers Central 236 Guice Lewis Closing Comments Please 238 Redhed David 19 Jun 85 6 55PM PDT Thanks again Networkers and I appreciate being a part of this dialog 233 Graner Rob THANK YOU ALL FOR THE VERY INFORMATIVE GROUP AND THANK YOU TO APPLE FOR THIS WONDERFUL MACHINE 237 Stubbs Gordon GUICE THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING WASHINGTON APPLE PI CLUB TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS CONFERENCE 240 Dickey Joan Tricia So George do we get our doughnuts and coffee now Or how about a beer anyone 246 Guice Lewis Thank you very much for supporting LisaTalk and the NetWorkers will as we always have continue to
50. even then only by using virtual memory i e continually swapping programs in and out from disk What makes the above dream practical at all is a device called the RamStak from AST Research The RamStak is a printed circuit board containing extra memory chips up to 2 MB MegaBytes It is usable on the Lisa XL machine only not on a standard Macintosh Once the extra memory is installed it is recognized immediately and used automatically by Lisa s 7 7 Office System and all of its applications and by Lisa s other Environments including the Pascal development system The Macintosh office system best known as the Finder also makes use of the extra bytes automatically even though not all Macintosh applications do this yet Memory The Lisa or Macintosh XL came from the factory with a minimum of 1 2 Megabyte or 512K bytes of RAM Random Access Memory and a maxi mum of only 1 MB Inside the Lisa XL are two slots labeled MEM 1 and MEM 2 Iii a 1 2 MB machine MEM 1 contains a circuit board populated with 1 2 MegaByte s worth of 64K bit memory chips In a 1 MB machine MEM 2 also contains one of these boards The RamStak must use one of these slots so if you have a 1 MB Lisa XL you9re going to have to pull out one of Apple s 1 2 MB and find someone who wants to buy it hang it on your wall as conceptual art or keep it around as a spare The AST board comes in four flavors 1 2 MB for 895 00 1 MB for 1 495 00 11 2 MB for
51. for managing disk space is to dedicate 1 hard disk eg the internal hard disk to MacWorks and dedicate the other hard disk to 7 7 and or Workshop 195 Redhed David Stephanie I have done this with my three profiles but I am still losing my Lisa Preferences when is the final MacWorks coming 196 Schmucker Kurt Re Managing disk space I am doing what Stephanie has suggested It works OK but I still want to use Profiles off of the parallel interface cards for Mac Of my four external profiles one is 7 7 two are the 3 0 Workshop and one is the 3 1 Workshop with MacApp My internal disk is completely Mac 199 Redhed David Kurt sure we all want more software on Lisa but surely everyone has given up for reasons you have already listed no more developer support i e toolkit 211 Redhed David Kurt I take it you never want to do a repair on Mac 194 Jam Ash STEPHANIE WILL MACWORKS XL BE AVAILABLE THROUGH DEALERS IF SO AT WHAT PRICE 19 Littell Stephanie Re MacWorks XL in dealerships MacWorks XL is available for 195 thru dealers People who already have MacWorks can get an upgrade thru the mail for 29 Dealers have details on the mail upgrade program 193 Guice Lewis John Zimmerman Stephanie Does Apple plan to introduce a method of repairing the hard disk for Mac XL to get rid of the bugs trash icon remnants etc that are continuously left behind under Ma
52. he same month they alerted favored dealers to DISCONTINUE development in favor of Mac 100 Guice Lewis ARE THE FOLLOWING THINGS FIXED TO THE DEGREE THAT THE AVERAGE END USER WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE w 11I THEM LISA 7 7 MACWORKS THE MIGRATION PACKAGE IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH JAZZ MAYBE ROB GRANER COULD ADDRESS THIS 84 Ingram Gary Stephanie I realize that Apple is continuing to offer support for Lisa and I have experienced much of that first hand However if a person needs something a little Out of the ordinary it is very difficult to find it I guess what I am saying is that the people that are supposed to know where to get the things that we need sometimes don t know 121 Day John Stephanie Please don t feel like a moving target for our concerns that is clearly not our intention however we do have some legitimate questions that need answers My next question is I understand that Apple still considers the Lisa to be the sole developers system and will continue to for the next year Is this correct And if it is will there be new updated versions of the Workshop Where will we get the new versions of the Workshop from Will the developer channels be the only way to get them or will the normal owner user be able to get newer Workshops as well 61 Por George So it seems to me that there are three major issues that we can deal with in the time available 1 Interpretation
53. he kit got VERY hard to find It seems that other users had recognized this Lisa as the power machine it is just as I had When I finally did find a dealer that had one only one I dropped everything and took the machine in Now that same dealer tells me that he is back ordered on the parts for 4 to 12 weeks Whew Anyway the point here is that I along with a great silent majority of Lisa owners consider myself among the lucky few to get one of these machines while they were still available Even the second hand machines in the newspapers are scarce these days But more power has some drawbacks too In this case the Lisa XL can get very complex even Apple sometimes needs help with the prob lems that come up daily with the hardware and software That friends is the pur pose of this column Most of the people that make up The NetWorkers have been dealing with these problems since the Lisa s introduction If we can t find the answers right away we generally know where to go or who to talk with to find them I personally am one of those fanatics that can t get enough If I discover a new trick or solution I ll work at it into the wee hours of the morning to find out what good it is My wife just loves that Each of these newsletters will expose more of the Undocumented Features of the Lisa Mac XL and some that are just hard to find I know you re going to find ware and hardware these tips are not going to work on 100 of the ma
54. idn t tell the story straight and make the Lisa fully compatible w the Macintosh environment Please contact me if you are interested in my spearheading a solution Geoffrey P Schultz Coldwell Banker Commercial Real Estate Services One Embarcadero Center 5 2300 San Francisco CA 941111 have discussed this with Richard Hart and would like him to also speak up thanks 148 Ingram Gary I am a serious business user that definitely wants support I can see a very bright future for the Lisa or could in the serious business world as my training time for new operators is cut considerable It is very expensive to train new people Lisa seems to keep the new people interested longer also because they can see results right away However to continue my point from the beginning of the conference I have had money in hand for over a month now and have called everyone in the country yes even Mark Wosniak I cannot even buy a Lisa 2 10 upgrade for the old price of 2 400 00 158 Graner Rob STEPHANIE I AM CURRENTLY USING MY LISA FOR GRAPHS CHARTS SPREAD SHEETS ACCOUNTING WORD PROCESSING MY WIFE EXCLUSIVELY USES WORD PROCESSING FOR EXTREMELY LARGE MANUSCRIPTS FOR HER FREE LANCE ING I AM VERY ANXIOUS TO RECEIVE CONTINUED SUPPORT FROM APPLE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN MY BUSINESS 171 Morrison Harvey WE ARE STRONG USERS OF THE TASKING ITS ENCOURAGING TO HEAR OF THE SUCCESS IN MAC EMULATION WITH THE SWITCHER BUT ALL THIS MEANS MORE INV
55. ilize the latest higher level integration applications program such as the MacWorks XL or Lisa 7 7 In addi tion to multi tasking you have faster data manipulation between the different applications Since RamStak addresses the maximum user memory configuration you are able to start with 512k and add additional memory as needed AST has socketed the board for easy upgrading All memory is fully parity checked and compati ble with your existing Macintosh XL Lisa memory The RamStak as with other AST products starts with the latest technology 256k chips plus their unsurpassed reputation for quality reliability and after the sale support Join the tens of thousands of satisfied AST customers world wide AST known for setting the standard with enhancement products for IBM PC and Apple computers has added the Macintosh XL Lisa family Ramstak the Macintosh XL Lisa expandable add on memory board is designed to fully utilize the bit mapped graphic display to your best advantage plus pull down menus a mouse and boasts a higher level of technology in the integration of software and data Additional RamStak memory allows user friendly interface and versatility in word processing business graphics commu nication data bases and various other applications for professionals RamStak makes it possible for business users to configure their Macintosh XL Lisa sys tems with up to two megabytes of memory which will open the door for supp
56. ion s host computer using its NOTEPAD proprietary computer conferencing system 19 Por George Welcome to the first LisaTalk conference 28 Por George Welcome to the first LisaTalk computer teleconference Pastry and coffee are in the back on the coffee tables As you enter this room look around to see who else is here I suggest that we spend the first 10 minutes of the conference by walking around greeting old friends making new ones and telling a few things about ourselves Please provide the following information From what location are you joining LisaTalk Who else is in your company presently Which organization are you representing and List anything important about yourself in relation to Lisa Mac XL computers which may have been left Out in your description in your participant biography 29 Por George If you have any questions about forum protocol or specific questions about using this medi um please put them forward Lewis Guice of The NetWorkers Central and I will answer all questions possible Telephone support is available at 415 550 1710 NOTE PARTICIPANTS IN ORDER OF JOINING CONFERENCE Por George Guice Lewis Littell Stephanie Jain Ash Reitberger Fred Schmucker Kurt Morrison Harvey Sabsay Daniel Day John Cadloni Mary stubbs Gordon Ingram Gary Graner Rob Dickey Joan EVREN ARY Larry Rosenstein Kroeger Joe Farber Dan Redhed David H
57. isk icon STILL isn t visible go pour yourself a stiff drink and sit down somewhere else for a while You have just lost your hard disk and until Apple gives us a good low level repair utility don t hold your breath for that one there s no way you re going to get it back If you re waiting for the Apple Migration Package the one that will trans fer some of your Lisa files to the Mac format to appear and you haven t yet updat ed to the version 3 1 of 7 7 do it now The Migration Package will only work on the 7 7 Office System V 3 1 Better to do it now and find the bugs especially if you are converting from 2 0 than to wait and have to deal with twice as many bugs after the Lisa Mac conversion Now you are just sitting down to the Lisa again after building the biggest spread sheet the world has ever seen in the 7 7 System You double click on the Calc icon and wait while the window comes to life but instead of the spread sheet a message that says The Lisa is having technical difficulties comes up No mat ter how many times you click in the window or try to open it the same thing hap pens Well don t jump off the ledge yet Make sure there is nothing in the clip board and with mouse in hand resize the widow to 1 high by about 4 long out side measurement Now click in the window Most of the time this little trick will open the file Enlarge the window very slowly by degrees stopping occasionally to see if the file wi
58. ith MacWorks XL the 7 7 Office System and Lisa Workshop With BitFixer what you see on the screen is what you really get on the Imagewriter LaserWriter or any other Macintosh compatible printer Suggested Retail Price Installation is required and may cost extra 95 Available now from All Star Computer Services 760 Dolores St San Francisco CA 94110 415 282 0540 Dealer inquiries welcome Apple Lisa MacDraw MacPaint MacWorks ImageWriter LaserWriter are trademarks of Apple Computer Inc Macintosh Is a trademark licensed to Apple Computer BitFixer is a trademark of All Star Computer Services 1985 All Star Computer Services sete REVIEW essere AST RamStak By Richard Hart August 1 1985 How would you like to have a word processor spreadsheet database manager terminal program drawing program project manager accounting system THINK TANK all in memory at the same time And have room left over for a RAMdisk of 1 MB MegaByte Sure Andy Hertzfeld s Switcher allows you to load up to eight application programs into any Macintosh at the same time but only in theory You don t have to think about it long to realize that a 512K Mac only has room for about two serious applications at the same time and with no room left over for a RAMdisk And as integrated as the Lisa 7 7 Office System is you can only do this trick on Lisa with the first seven of the above programs and
59. k finder window instead Don t panic and don t turn the machine off again The MacWorks people have given us another choice From the hard disk finder window first push down the Option and the Apple keys both together and then push the Lisa On Off button This will instantly transfer you to the flashing Diskette icon This kind of program will most return you to the finder window To avoid having to use the restart button or if you just want to get back to the hard disk push the Apple key only and then press the On Off button This will take you right to the smiling Mac without having to go through the start up diagnostics You can use this little trick to in some cases get back into the hard disk if the system file gets damaged and you get that horrible BLACK MAC on start up Your timing will have to be good here though If the system is trashed you will not get to the finder window You will have to force it to start from the floppy After the fourth click the diagnostics push the Option only key and wait If you timed it right you will see the flashing disk icon Put in the MacWorks System disk with the Hard Disk Install application on it If your hard disk icon shows up replace the system from your back up disk you did back it up didn t you and your hard disk is OK again If your hard disk icon still isn t visible in the finder window open the Hard Disk Install application and then cancel it If your hard d
60. ll stay open Now you can copy the information you need and get out before the file bombs again If the resizing doesn t work there is not much more you can do Now you can jump Well so much for this issue There s never enough room to do it all I ll be look ing forward to seeing ya ll here next time though Happy Computing x x
61. nfoMedia Corporation provider of NOTEPAD the confer a number of applications heavy telecommunications some database management for prospect lists some graphics for promotional pieces and seminar announcements and some word processing If anyone needs help or tips on using Notepad please drop me a note At the ACTION prompt touch key 1 and type EVREN followed by a carriage return Type the note and type two carriage returns to send 38 Morrison Harvey Morrison 11arvey and John Lopresti have joined the conference and have caught up with all the other entries We are participating from foggy Tiburon 39 EVREN MARY Oops I forgot to mention that I am logging in from the InfoMedia San Bruno offices near the San Francisco airport It is sunny and nice out there a great day for the beach I hope it is a good day for the Mac too 35 Por George Your guests any people who are presently in your company and who do not have a user ID are welcome and encouraged to participate in Lisa Talk The only requirements are Guests should start each of their entries by typing their name followed by a colon to prevent confusion about the party with whom we are talking The very first entry is putting his her business card on the table and telling about the SPE CIFIC interest in LisaTalk 41 Kroeger Joe This is Joe Kroeger Question When Reviewing how can I abort that activity and return to ACTION 36 Jain Ash HI
62. of Apple s commitment to service and support Lisas Mac XLs in SPECIFIC terms including the Migration package and bugs in MacWorks and Lisa 7 7 2 Available and planned third party support 3 The possibility of an international on line Lisa Mac XL user group Let s start with the first one Can anybody recall what was Apple s SPECIFIC commitment 72 Guice Lewis Stephanie you might be willing to just summarize Apple s Official position and plans regarding The Lisa Mac XL 105 Hart R I get the feeling from Apple that it will respond to complaints from users and from develop ers trashed by the Lisa demise only to the extent that those users and developers yell In other words if we demand file translations that s all we ll get if we demand hardware upgrade we ll get that If we demand equivalent software NOT Jazz we ought to get that But to Apple s relief I don t hear much yelling 106 Reitberger Fed By the way When Apple talks of Support with a capital S remember that they are turn ing off all end user support phone lines as of the end of this month All the end user can do will be to go to a dealer for help Or should I say support small s In fact the other day I asked a dealer about the Lisa 7 7 system as to price and availability his answer What do you want to buy a Lisa for when I can get you a Mac cheap APPLE SUPPORT MACWORKS 89 Day John The current version of MacWorks doesn t let XL
63. ort of multi user applications and operating systems such as Unix and XENIX tee 100 compatibility with all versions of the Macintosh XL Lisa The RamStak has a One year limited warranty on parts and labor HARDWARESPECIFICATIONS Size approx 280mm W x 146mm H Memory Configurations 5Dkbyte 1 Mbyte 1 2Mbyte 2Mbyte Note Socketed board for later upgrading to full 2 Mbytes Power Usage Typical amp 5VDC 1 2 Mb config 2amps SVDC 2 Mb config Warranty One year limited warranty standard optional additional year limited warranty available QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT RAMstack Q How do I install RamStak in my Macintosh XL Lisa A RamStak comes out of the box ready to be installed in any one of the two Macintosh XL Lisa memory slots You may leave one slot empty or have the Apple Computer Inc 512 kbyte memory card in your machine Please note that there is one configuration option please see your RamStak User s Manual for additional information Q IfRamStak occupies only one of the two memory slots in my Macintosh XL Lisa can I have two 2 0 megabyte RamStak cards in my Macintosh XL and address 4 0 megabytes of RAM megabytes This is a hardware limitation incorporated into the computer itself Q If I have an Apple Computer Inc 512 kbyte memory card in my Macintosh XL Lisa can I add a 2 0 megabyte RAMstack card and use 2 5 megabytes of RAM A No Again the maxim
64. ow it s now obsolete ANYONE will invest in the Priam Lisa MAC XL Data Tower 104 Stubbs Gordon RE Reitberger Thanks for the information on the PRIAM I work for the Food and Drug Administration and we tried to install about 80 of the 13 thousand dollar LISA s but could not get any action from any local dealer so the powers that be installed Dec in desperation UNANSWERED QUESTIONS POSED TO THIRD PARTY DEVELOPERS 69 Redhed David I know of one small company that was thinking of doing a 12 MH CPU for Lisa but has now been scared off anyone else working on this 68 Sabsay Daniel It seems to me that the eventual trend is to the Mac MacXL with Lisa file conversion aids to slowly bring the data Out of the Lisa into the present Is that too cold 140 Graner Rob WE ARE HAVING GREAT DIFFICULTY LOCATING THE PROGRAM LISA PASCAL WORKSHOP IN THE SO CAL AREA DOES ANYONE HAVE SUGGESTIONS ALSO WE D LIKE TO KNOW IF APPLE OR SOMEONE IS GOING TO OFFER DOUBLE SIDED 3 1 2 DISK DRIVE 156 Farber Dan LOOKING at the business realities it s difficult to imagine Apple finding the time and ener gy to support the Lisa people in a way that could be satisfying It seems logical that a third party be contracted to provide the necessary support alimony for Lisa users I think David Redhed makes a good point a machine competitive with the Lisa would further complicate the issue WAYS USERS ARE USING LISA S AND MACXL S 144
65. s Design Group Inc an online think tank and consulting firm based in Arlington Virginia Ms Stephanie Littell Product Manager Apple Computer Inc 10460 Bandly Drive 3 Cupertino CA 95014 Stephanie had diverse responsibilities in the direct marketing of Apple s Lisa computer including pricing and determining marketing position As such Stephanie has been available in the past to many Lisa users and developers by phone and through visits to local user groups As an Apple product manager Stephanie is currently working on various Mac XL products being developed by Apple 7 NetWorkers Central Mr Tom Barnum Sales Representative Computer Connection 214 California Street San Francisco CA 94111 415 781 0200 Tom has been a sales representative with Computer Connection San Francisco the largest single authorized Apple dealer in California for 11 months and he is especially knowledgeable about the Macintosh computer environment Mr David Baasch Director of Marketing Infosphere Inc 4730 Southwest MacAdam Avenue Portland OR 97201 503 226 3515 David is responsible for product specification and market definition for new Infosphere products Infosphere developed an XL based disk and print server XL Serve Other products include PDP 1 1 hardware and Real time operating systems Infosphere utilizes 6 Mac XL computers 8 NetWorkers Central Mr Lewis Guice President The NetWorkers An Information
66. se to provide maintenance as promised in their letter of May 7 1985 for the next five years On the subject of better communications While Apple is still working on debugging MacWorks our members feel it would be of benefit if Apple could communicate with Lisa MacXL owners more often to let them know when updates are available by establishing some sort of communications vehicle that Lisa and MacXL owners could check to see if any fur ther updates are available thus helping relieve dealers from having to constantly handle this type of call Possibly our various user groups throughout the nation could act as this type of resource with Apple contacting each group on a regular basis Our members would like Apple to consider providing MacWorks XL version to Lisa owners at no additional cost On the issue of software hardware for Lisa and MacXL Our members would like Apple to consider 1 creating a hardware version MacWorks once a final debugged version has been achieved or having a third party developer create a hardware version 2 abandoning soft ware protection for Lisa Office system informing owners how to unprotect the software and 3 providing more information of where Apple stands on the subject of the file server for MacXL Our users feel that third party software developers should label their products with statements regarding compatibility with Lisa and MacXL computers to avoid the frustration expense and disappointment of purchasing
67. support the needs of the Lisa Users around the World Thank you Lewis 242 Por George OK let s leave the room and go to The Networkers for a cup of tea or coffee If they have screwdriver it would be even better type 3 at the next A ON prompt and select The Networkers 238 Day John Networkers please get in touch with me about you products services We are most interested in showing them to our group here in D C That also goes for any of the rest of you as well Once again for Gordon Stubs myself and all of us here at Washington Apple Pi thanks 239 Morrison Harvey WE ARE SIGNING OFF 248 Guice Lewis 19 Jun 85 7 12PM PDT Thank you all again BitFixer Macintosh XL Computer Aspect Ratio Switch One of the advantages of using a Macintosh XL computer is the large screen But with graphics programs such as MacPaint or MacDraw things don t look right Circles get printed as ovals text looks stretched out The problem is the aspect ratio the width vs height of the dots which compose the screen The Mac XL computer has rec tangular dots while Macintosh software expects them to be square There wasn t much you could do about it until now BitFixer is a hardware add on installed inside your Macintosh XL computer With it you can switch instantly between the full screen view composed of the usual rectan gular dots and a graphics screen made up of square dots BitFixer is compatible w
68. t developer on the East Coast at least it seemed that way 77 Sabsay Daniel Kurt is MacApp a Pascal development environment compatible with the Workshop Pascal What about Clascal support 101 Schmucker Kurt Dan Sabsay As you can tell from my remarks I think that the object development path is the best way for most software developers to go On Lisa this meant using the Toolkit and Clascal on Mac it means using MacApp and Object Pascal Both are compatible with the Pascal Workshop more or less These paths mean about one quarter as much work for the developer Yes one quarter for the same result As much as it hurts to say so Clascal and the Toolkit are really only of historical interest now and that is how they are covered in my next book Object Oriented Programming for the Apple Macintosh REGARDING PRIAM HARD DISK 78 Stubbs Gordon Washington Apple Pi LisaSig users group bought a 76 meg Priam hard disk Will Apple sup port this drive with any future versions of MacWorks XL 90 Reitberger Fred About the Priam DataTower Apple approached Priam for the development of the Lisa Data Tower Priam invested many dollars creating the hardware and Apple loaned some software engineers for the interfacing After it was all done and ready to sell Steve Jobs Steve Who pulled the rug out from under the Lisa market Its now a super MAC and now there is no market for it I do not believe that after the last bl
69. t what SUP PORT REALLY means 85 Guice Lewis In addition what is the precise definition of SUPPORT 79 Uttell Stephanie Part of any Apple product plan is forecasting enough service stock to cover repairs for 5 years beyond the date for which manufacturing is discontinued Thus we anticipate that any future service requirements can be handled through authorized Apple dealers as with any other Apple product 88 Guice Lewis Many Apple Dealers are not familiar and thereby not equipped to offer the support necessary to establish a user comfort zone This in fact is a hotly touted issue 192 Stubbs Gordon STEPHANIE SORRY I HAD HARDWARE PROBLEMS ON THE CLUB EQUIPMENT SINCE ALL 1700 MEMBERS USE IT FREQUENTLY MY LISA S AT WORK AND MY MAC AT HOME HAVE NEVER GIVEN ME ANY PROBLEMS THANK ALL PARTICIPANTS FOR THEIR GRACIOUS CONTRIBUTION TO THIS ENLIGHTENING PARTICIPATION 217 Ingram Gary In reference to hardware problems again I had this Lisa protected since day one with a fer roressant transformer and have had not one problem with it On the other hand a friend of mine who bought his Lisa in the same week had his for two weeks and the power supply for both the CPU and the Profile went at the same time Apple replaced them for him and he bought a transformer before he put it on line again He has not had another problem in two years APPLE SUPPORT LISA 7 7 AND MIGRATION PACKAGE 97 Por George
70. ted on InfoMedia Corporation s DEC PDP 11 minicomputer located in San Bruno California on its NOTEPAD proprietary computer con ferencing system The NetWorkers thanks Apple Computer Inc all participating Lisa users and third party developers and the press for joining us tonight We hope we will all benefit from the exchange of information about to take place If you have any technical problems in the course of this forum you may call 415 550 1710 where we will be glad to assist you 2 NetWorkers Central How To Write and Review Entries To Write Entry Strike key number 4 At the hyphen begin typing your entry Strike two Carriage Returns to send your entry To Review Entries Strike key number 5 Review Entries will appear Strike a question mark and all of the various Review options will appear To Quit Strike key number 9 Hang Up amp Turn Off Your Modem 0 R Strike Control key and C simultaneously 3 NetWorkers Central To Suspend an Entry or Stop Scrolling Text will stop scrolling To Continue Scrolling Entry Strike Control key and Q simultaneously Text will continue scrolling Please keep entries as brief as possible in terms of lines per entry if your entry fills more than 2 3 of your screen other participants will not have ample time to read your complete entry If necessary list your thoughts in several brief entries 4 NetWorkers Central Georg
71. time and support on this confab I had some appre hensions at first about what could be said in such a short time but it s amazing what can be said when everybody is talking at once and we don t have to listen till we are through talking I hope many more of these will grow out of this one 205 Morrison Harvey THAT LAST THANKS WAS FOR ROXANE 206 Por George 10 more minutes 207 EVREN MARY Many thanks to Networkers and to Stephanie and Larry from Apple thanks to George for moderating and summarizing and thanks to ALL of you for using NOTEPAD to conduct this on line conference We provide this conferencing service to many types of businesses if you would like more information please contact me at InfoMedia in San Bruno 415 952 4487 or send a note 208 Guice Lewis IF ANY OF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE NETWORKERS ARE UP TO PLEASE LOG ON TO THE NETWORKERS BY HITTING KEY 3 THEN KEY 2 AND CR 172 Dickey Joan The members of PLUG want to agree with George Por in thanking Stephanie for supporting this teleconference and we would especially like to thank her for participating on her Happy Birthday 173 Guice Lewis Happy Birthday To you Happy Birthday to you Happy birthday dear Stephanie Happy Birthday to you The NetWorkers 185 Schmucker Kurt My thanks to Networkers for setting this up It has been very interesting and useful I am surprised however that hardly anyone mentioned the f
72. uage to the Mac Member of Washington Apple Pi User Group 111 NetWorkers Central John Day Chairman Lisa Special Interest Group Washington Apple Pi User Group 7618A Thorn Street Fort Mead MD 20755 As Chairman of the Lisa S I G for the Washington Apple P1 User Group John prepares many software and hardware evaluations for the Apple Pi Journal which has circulation of 10 000 John and many of the other S I G members about 100 members strong are some of the first Lisa users ever John calls many of the 5 1 0 users industrial strength users as many are involved in buying equipment for large organizations John uses his own Lisa indirectly for work as Captain for the U S Army specifically LisaDraw and MacPaint for briefing slides for presentations to general officers The Washington Apple P1 User Group has a variety of infor mation services including a telephone hotline number for Lisa users Mr Rob Graner Director Operations Graner Oil Company Graner Oil Company an oil producer and well servicing company has been in business for 4 years Rob is also a member of the MacOrange User Group which consists of 4 500 Macintosh users and 12 Lisa users Rob uses his Lisa 7 7 for in house journalism spreadsheet and accounting He is also a Beta Tester of the Migration package 12 NetWorkers Central Mr Richard Hart Host KPIX Evening Magazine As co host of the San Francisco KPIX television show Evening Magazine Richar
73. um addressable memory of the Macintosh XL Lisa is two megabytes Therefore if you have an Apple 512 kbyte memory card in your Macintosh you would only need a 1 5 megabyte RamStak card to upgrade your system to the full two megabytes Q I currently have 1 0 megabyte of RAM in my Macintosh XL Lisa how do I upgrade my system to two megabytes A If you currently have 1 0 megabyte of RAM in your Macintosh XL Lisa then you have filled both memory slots with the Apple 512 kbyte memory card Therefore you will need to remove one of the cards and install a 1 5 megabyte RAMstack card in the empty slot to upgrade your system to two megabytes Q What are the different configuration options available for RamStak A There are two different versions of RamStak available The first version uses 64k DRAMSs and provides 512k of RAM The memory chips are soldered and the board is NOT upgradeable The second version uses 256k DRAMSs and pro vides from 512k to 2 0 megabytes of additional memory These memory chips are socketed and the board is field upgradeable This allows you to add 512k ini tially and upgrade your board as required Q Is RamStak compatible with MacWorks 1 0 A Yes For the upgradeable version of RamStak included in your package is the RamStak installation diskette which will allow you to modify your BACKUP copy of MacWorks to address up to two megabytes of RAM Q Is RamStak compatible with the Lisa Office System A Yes
74. ware Corp announces a Multi User Omnis 3 Data Base Management System to take advantage of the 4 MegaByte Internal Memory Board 5 Priam announces a 16 GigaByte Laser Disk Storage device that is com patible with the Lisa Mac XL 6 The NetWorkers introduces a full line of top quality affordable business When I was younger I didn t think that my parents really understood what was going on in the world As I grew up however I realized how incredibly insight ful they were about things Rumor has it that Apple Computer Inc will be intro ducing a Macintosh with a twelve inch screen built in hard disk and expansion slots Maybe it s just that Apple s growing up The Title of the Activity is LisaTalk Welcome to LisaTalk the on line conference developed for Lisa users to discuss the fate of the Lisa and Mac XL Computer Systems For more information about The NetWorkers or The Peninsula Lisa Users Group Call Lewis Guice 415 550 1710 or Ms Joan Dickey 415 728 5462 Thank you The NetWorkers 1 NetWorkers Central Welcome To The LisaTalk TeleConference LisaTalk Will Begin At 5 PM PDT On June 19 1985 The LisaTalk On Line Forum is sponsored by The NetWorkers in cooperation with the Peninsula Lisa Users Group and has been organized to provide the Lisa community with the opportunity to electronically discuss concerns about the discontinuation of the Apple CIM Lisa computer This forum is being conduc

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