Minutes_2006-10-24 - Security Industry Association
Contents
1. additional text entirely with Testing to comply with Manufacturers specification Committee agreed that the reference change will be made and to replace the added text Comment Area of Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document 20060828 24 4 2 4 3 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest Replacement of the proposed Additional Proposed N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com text with Acknowledgment of Arm and disarm may or wording may not be unique A manufacturer may use the same accepted acknowledgement for both functions if separate buttons Capitalize are used for Arming and Disarming Disarm in the first sentence 20060828 25 4 2 5 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell 1 The deleted text box was NOT in the cp01 Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com standard agreed to the following 2 We suggest Changing the existing standards text 1 Thanks for as follows your comment Existing text no change The abort window may be disabled by zone or zone type 2 Agreed Proposed change 3 Agreed The abort window may be disabled for each zone or zone type individually for the entire system 3 We suggest Changing Proposed ADDITIONAL text as follows Proposed Additional text It shall not be possible to globally disable the abort window Proposed change to additional text It shall not be possible to globally disable the abort window using a single system wide option 200608282. they can be added eee ee pete aaa 7 The note currently says User manuals should contain Agreed N the following statement or one similar We believe the should must be a shall since it is intended that there be a statement and the only option is the exact wording but a choice whether to include it or not is not intended A00GOREG Missing Subject a p A Many of today s panels have generic function See dd programmable keys on the keypad They may come Cancel in labeled by the factory function 1 or reset or whatever These keys are often programmed with functions Appendix H and add an Comment Area of Commenior Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document described within CP 01 Such as cancel It seems appropriate appropriate that the CP 01 standard should address the definition for CP marking of these keys when they are used for CP 01 01 and functions recommend to manufacturers to label function keys consistent with Appendix H if required 20060828 10 Terms and Larry Dischert ADT There was an effort underway by the CSAA and a while Committee et ldischert adt com ago by the NBFAA to arrive at a harmonized listing of de dell e alarm industry terms have not seen any activity from is laudable them We now have the NFPA publishing their list of however terms and they are all quite different For inst
3. 26 4 2 5 1 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell 1 The Deleted text box was NOT in the cp01 2000 Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com standard and has no place on this document agreed to the following 2 We suggest Removal of the following proposed additional text entirely If this is unsuccessful the local alarm 1 Thanks for your comment no change 2 Agreed Comment Area of Commenior Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document 20060828 27 4 3 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell We suggest changing the word trip in the first Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com sentence to trip s agreed to the de following We suggest removing the proposed additional text 1 Accept entirely Restores may or may not be sent to the central station after the final alarm event as dictated by the manufacturer We suggest Adding the following text to this section The swinger count is decreased by alarm events only No other event will reduce the counter Therefore when swinger shutdown is set to 2 the system will allow 2 alarm transmissions to be sent to the central station independent of any other signals it may send on that zone Restore signals will not reduce the swinger counter change to trips 2 This was suggested by UL and needs to stay not accepted 3 Tabled to the next version of the standard at that time the committee will need to d
4. a new revision effort 7 Disposition of Public Review Comments The document underwent a public review from July 14 August 28 2006 The comments received were appended to the draft agenda The participants reviewed the comments in detail and their disposition is contained in Attachment B After the review of the comments received the following motion was addressed Salinas Dischert Motion To accept the disposition contained in Attachment B and noted that no substantive changes have been made to the draft Vote Unanimous Motion Passes 8 Electrical Disturbance Alarms Due to time constraints this agenda item will be considered at the next meeting 9 Open Discussion There was no further open discussion 10 Next Meeting and Adjournment The meeting was adjourned Hinkson Dischert at 5 20 p m The next meeting will be announced by staff to the Subcommittee Attachment A Attendee Listing for the October 24 2006 Control Panels Subcommittee Meeting PD e no A nha ale wetealain one balan ens yotnesanes E Larry Dischert O anreaden co ace ETE vane ee celia AA ei iaeei TTia KE eia iT eater aaeea iawieatd John Favia A Bernie Worst A A T A A hake des aaa daceeeecumetvcree Jimmy Salinas Bay PAINT ce cess tress A A T Shane Clary A inie snuevavansatedglacttha ear a i aa e TA A e AEE ee Scans Rick Sheets DMP inicias di Terry Shelton Honeywell sonia a Rich Hinkson Honeywell tooo da la Robert Orlando Honeywell asarria ne nenea ta
5. the time frame designated by the manufacturer Check that a sustained trip on a sensor does trigger an alarm e Reset the fire alarm system of the UUT Trip a sensor on a fire zone that has been configured for alarm verification Hold the tripping means in place e Verify that an alarm signal is transmitted within the time frame designated by the manufacturer 20060828 33 Annex F 4 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Passing products through agencies these days has The committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com become extremely challenging and burdensome There opted for no are times when it takes a year to get a simple revision re change this listed issue is The proposition as stated will cause manufacturers to effectively resubmit for agency approval ANY time there is a minor deferred to the revision next edition of the standard Therefore we make the following suggestions which may have substantive We STRONGLY suggest replacing the proposed changes that additional text with the following statements might require Products listed to any CP01 standard will remain listed to resubmittal that particular revision of the standard and need not_be updated or re tested to the latest CP01 revision when modified 20060828 34 4 4 3 Michael Carrieri This requirement only allows for certain kinds of Committee N Restoration of Power mcarrieri napcosecurity com non volatile storage and prohibits designs with only a week or two of capa
6. Draft Minutes SIA Standards Committee Security Control Panels Subcommittee Meeting New York NY Tuesday October 24 2006 3 00 5 00 PM Jacob Javitts Convention Center Room 2D06 2D07 1 Call to Order Mr Nesse called the meeting to order at 3 05 p m 2 Roll Call The meeting attendees introduced themselves A complete listing of the meeting participants can be found in Attachment A of these minutes 3 SIA Antitrust Policy Ms Vago referred participants to the SIA Antitrust policy linked to the agenda and reminded participants that they are subject to the policy 4 Approval of Draft Agenda The participants reviewed the Agenda and after brief discussion the following motion was addressed Hinkson Salinas Motion Approve the draft agenda as presented Vote Unanimous Motion Passes 5 Approval of the Draft Minutes of the 2006 04 06 Meeting The participants reviewed the minutes and after further discussion the following motion was addressed Clary Orlando Motion Approve the draft minutes as presented Vote Unanimous Motion Passes 6 Chairman s Remarks Mr Nesse thanked the commenters for their review and comments of the document it was excellent input Mr Nesse recommended that if the committee agrees to make non substantive changes based on the public review comments this document will move forward for final approval If substantive changes are considered the group may wish to consider them in
7. Reference Document suppliers or specifiers to describe the very same function something like with a pointer to It now says For the purposes of this standard the Annexx H following terms and definitions apply but the implication is that these terms do apply to a panel that is labeled CP 01 and this is not the case Something like The terms and definitions listed below are for use within this standard in order to provide uniform use and understanding They are not accepted industry nomenclature and individuals will find that various manufacturer s will in fact use different terms to describe the same events or functions eee 4 6 1 Quick Larry Discherit ADT The listing of items to be included within the guide is not Committee Reference Guide aeae aes an all inclusive list of CP 01 features and we believe it a marme should be Si was selected to pull We understand there are items such as swinger shut A t down that may be a little obscure to some users a a a however what we find is it is the lack of readily available n ith user documentation describing some of these more a obscure functions that leads to user confusion over Saal sl exactly how a CP 01 panel behaves under various down will be circumstances It is also unlikely that the installer will added to the explain these more obscure functions list But if there are specific additional features that should be described in the user manual
8. ance Bevond the Duress SIA person holding gun to head NFPA civil y f thi disturbance NFPA Ambush person holding gun to head scope orts effort no edits realize this may not have been a committee goal but are required believe there was the expectation that the CSAA would complete this and there would be an opportunity to harmonize I m thinking maybe pose this question to the Panel committee and see it s pleasure on this task 20060828 11 4 2 7 Manual Bernie Worst ADT ADT would suggest the elimination of single button The committee N Alarms third bullet oworst adt com remote alarm devices agreed that this was a good We have experienced many cases of false alarms with suggestion these devices The 2 second activation time really is not however much help in the situation described below Additionally consider this to if the customer is not aware of the 2 second or in a panic be part of a forgets to hold potential harm from not activating can new edition exist change This item will be This is an excerpt from a recent message from one of our considered in a offices future revision that would be We receive many false alarm activations from wireless considered a hand held hold up buttons on small commercial new edition installations Many clients trigger them by placing them in their pockets resulting in a false hold up alarm response 20060828 12 Appendix A Larry Dischert ADT e o Committee N Programmab
9. cen tail AEA EE AEE aA EKARTE E shania Scott Simon WAST OC E E AA George Bish NEO EE E E A A AE E A A T Dan O Malley A Bob McKee A Set Bl RS whee i cy estes tila tit dal a a secu Ron Walters pe Rg eee Sects cesses cee eee ack tad eS ees N Re ete ces Rick Muller Security Industry ASSOCIATION ects sciscteessentenessedeeeecasleneenctsdierwelstveantineagetieens Monica Vago Security Industry Association Shaun Pal Smith Attachment B Disposition of Public Review Comments Received Comments Received on Public Review July 14 2006 August 28 2006 for Draft ANSI SIA CP 01 Revision http www siaonline org standards cp cp01 200x 20060627 pdf Draft http www siaonline org standards cp cp01_ 200x 20060627 delta pdf Draft with Markups Comment Reference Area of Document Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N 20060828 1 Annex B Table B 1 Clause 4 2 2 1 Tom Lewin TRLewin aol com understand and agree with the intent of the clause My question is If the selected exit time is set to the permitted 255 seconds then can the doubled time go to 510 seconds That extensive a delay seems possibly excessive If the total doubled time is not to exceed 255 seconds that should be indicated in this clause The new requirements for UL 1023 have been modified to 120 seconds J Lesniak Would accept programmability outside the range NFPA 731 is in synch with current Committee agreed to e
10. citor backed up RAM lam not sure why the term indefinitely was chosen but it clearly affects limited storage devices Can a time period of say 5 days be used in lieu of infinitely agreed not less than fourteen days
11. com We suggest removal of the proposed additional text entirely for the following reasons 1 This section may be interpreted by agencies as requiring that ALL peripherals must be tested to the cp01 standard 2 This also suggests that new products or other manufacturers products i e sensors may not be installed on existing systems without being listed on this document first For example if a new replacement version of a keypad is developed an AHJ could refuse to list the system since the model numbers would not match the documentation This could easily create a paperwork Committee agreed to add explanatory text in an Annex on what is and what is not the intent of this section Comment Area of Commenior Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document nightmare 20060828 31 4 6 7 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell We suggest the proposed additional text be Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com removed entirely agreed to not The standard is clear as written and doest not require add additional additional language The indication of automatic text termination indication was left to the discretion of the manufacturer and should remain that way If desired language can be added that specifically states this 20060828 32 Annex D Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest adding titles between the various tests in Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com VP25 as follows accepted add
12. dit document for further clarification in places where you double exit time You double the exit time for a delay but not to exceed 255 N 20060828 2 Clause 4 6 7 1 Auto Termination Tom Lewin TRLewin aol com How do you or the control panel know that auto testing will end 5 minutes into the future and be finished then I m somewhat puzzled Committee agreed to no edits The panel annunciates that it will time out of the test mode in 5 minutes No warning is given if the user terminates the test mode manually 20060828 3 Page 46 VP26 Power Variations Tom Lewin TRLewin aol com Is this a procedure that is contemplated to be run in the field after an installation is completed Can this be done Committee agreed that the Comment Reference Area of Document Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N practically by the installers If this applies only to manufacturers can they determine low voltage operations for devices which they do not manufacture and will be installed by others I m confused procedures are intended for use by the manufacturer to validate their design and for use by UL to confirm compliance But this is not explicitly stated In light of the question some explanatory text could be added to Annex D 20060828 4 Page 48 VP38 Default Settings Tom Lewin TRLewin aol com As read th
13. ecide if it is necessary to have logical separation between trouble and alarm swinger counts Comment Reference Area of Document Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N 20060828 28 4 4 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com We suggest removal of proposed additional text entirely for the following reason In order to properly match a sensor i e PIR to a panel you must consider current draw of the sensor minimum operating voltage of the sensor as well as line resistance This calculation is installation specific and can not be provided by the manufacturer as a global statement Discussion surrounding the last sentence The specification limit may be provided as either as a DC input voltage or a total field wiring circuit resistance beyond which proper operation of the zone is not assured Committee agreed to the following Take added text out and then put in an informative Annex in the document To ensure compatibility between zone inputs and the sensor outputs N 20060828 29 4 5 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com Paragraph 2 We suggest the proposed additional text be MOVED to the VALIDATION section annex e of the document It does not belong in the body of the standard Committee agreed Good idea 20060828 30 4 6 1 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell
14. ing titles for clarification VP25 Fire Alarms Verify that Verification may be disabled e Program the UUT to disable Fire Alarm Verification e Trip a sensor on a fire zone e Verify that the UUT transmits an alarm signal With Verification enabled test that a single trip does not cause an alarm e Program the UUT to enable Fire Alarm Verification e Trip a sensor on a fire zone that has been configured for alarm verification e For UUTs with a means for determining that a zone has been reset verify that the UUT resets the zone For self resetting sensors remove the tripping means after 5 seconds e Verify that no alarm is triggered within the time frame designated by the manufacturer Check that multiple trips on a sensor do trigger an alarm e Wait for a period of 3 minutes to allow the confirmation period to time out e Trip a sensor on a fire zone that has been configured for alarm verification e Fora UUT with a means for determining that a zone has been reset verify that the UUT resets the zone When the zone is reset trip it again within the time frame designated by the manufacturer For self resetting sensors remove the tripping Comment Area of Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document means 5 seconds after the sensor trips Wait 15 seconds then re apply the tripping means and hold it e Verify that an alarm signal is transmitted after the second trip within
15. is clause all testing is to be done at default settings That being the case how can the installer or the customer know that desired non default value settings will be in effect at the end of the validation procedure Am missing something or is that what is to be added in the alternate procedure item SAME response to 20060828 3 above 20060828 5 4 2 5 4 1 Cancel Larry Dischert ADT Idischert adt com The section starts out If an alarm has previously been transmitted With the delays built in to CP 01 panels the alarm may not have been previously transmitted and as such a cancel may be transmitted at any time during an alarm event not sure how to word it Committee agreed that a Cancel signal would be improper As written it seems to correctly state that panels should not transmit a cancel signal if they did not transmit an alarm signal They may optionally transmit an abort signal see section 4 2 5 1 2 20060828 6 3 2 Terms and definitions Larry Dischert ADT Idischert adt com We think it is important to include language that clearly states that these terms are applicable to the CP 01 document but may not be industry standards Many of there terms are not the ones used by manufacturers Committee agreed to further clarification described in Comment Area of Commenior Comment Disposition Substantive Y N
16. le Idischert adt com Discovered that the cancel line in the matrix 4 2 agreed that the Features Shipping 5 4 1 does not contain the default value minimum 5 5 minute Defaults Cancel minutes It can be found in the text 4 2 5 4 but it is C inconsistent not to be included in the Default matrix cancel window should be added to the table as a Comment Area of Commenior Comment Disposition Substantive Y N Reference Document required feature The table will note that itis a required feature it is not required to be programmable 20060828 13 4 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest changing the proposed additional text to Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com A Sian a ee agreed something like When silent exit is used in a partitioned improves system it shall meet the same requirements as for non A 2 clarity partitioned systems 20060828 14 4 2 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest Replacing the proposed additional text Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com A f agreed with An Auto arming option may exist and when enabled improves the must meet all of the requirements of clause 4 clarity and does not change the meaning 20060828 15 4 2 2 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest Removal of the statement in the SECOND Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com IR 4 agreed the paragraph entirely This is a redundant statement as it is s cond covered in paragraph 4
17. of 4 2 2 2 already sentence of the second paragraph will be deleted 20060828 16 4 2 2 3 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest replacing the proposed additional text with Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com f f agreed to the Panels may have this feature disabled at the time of i installation comment Will replace proposed additional test to include the wording 20060828 17 4 2 2 4 Rich Hinkson Honeywell We propose changing the first sentence of this Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com paragraph as follows agreed Existing standard text An Exit Error sequence shall be initiated if an exit entry zone is violated at the expiration of exit time Proposed changes An Exit Error sequence shall be initiated if an exit entry Zone is in a violated state or condition at the instant of exit time expiration 20060828 18 4 2 2 4 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Suggest Replacing the proposed additional text Committee N Rich Hinkson Honeywell com with This section applies to entry exit zones only All non agreed E E type zones will adhere to the manufacturers Comment Reference Area of Document Commentor Comment Disposition Substantive Y N specifications relative to Exit Error 20060828 19 4 2 3 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com Suggest Removal of the Proposed word early or defining what early means Committee agreed to remove the w
18. ord early 20060828 20 4 2 3 3 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com The Deleted text box does NOT accurately reflect what the actual cp01 2000 standard contains Comment on deleted text no action required nor to be taken 20060828 21 4 2 3 3 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com Suggest the proposed additional text If multiple keypads are annunciating the entry delay one or all of the keypads may be momentarily silenced be moved to the end of this clause to be effective We believe the point of this comment is to ensure that MULTIPLE pads can be silenced Committee agreed to exchange all for more and move the text to the end of the section 20060828 22 4 2 4 1 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com Suggest removal of the proposed additional text entirely We don t understand the purpose of this statement Change the text in the first paragraph to ALL buttoms prevent inadvertant activtation by some mechanical feature Add new text that provides a distinction between buttons that trigger alarms dual action requirement and remote buttons that control the system mechanical feature 20060828 23 4 2 4 2 Rich Hinkson Honeywell Rich Hinkson Honeywell com The reference to 4 2 7 1 should be a reference to 4 2 7 Suggest Replacement of the proposed
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