Walter V-Drive Pears.. - Dubler Family Fun Page
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1. rebuj make your own gaskei or buy some from Walter The cooling jacket walls ar about 1 4 inch thick in a new gearbox Mine were corroded down to less than half this thickness after 21 years of service I plan to coat the inside of the cooling passage with marine tex and other coatings I expect to get at least another ten years of service by doing this If the jacket is kept clean and the coating renewed on an annual basis I hope to get many more years My input shaft was corroded but it was only superficial I sanded it down replaced the bearings and plan to paint it and reinstall it in the next few weeks I suppose that someone could have more Significant corrosion of the shaft but you d need some kind of persistent problem to cause the kind of corrosion you are talking about perhaps a bad stuffing box that causes water to spin off the drive shaft splashing the input shaft with water If you had this kind of problem water prabably got inside the v drive input seal too This seal can be replaced without pulling the V drive but the CV joints behind this cover may be bad They can t be serviced unless the unit is pulled Take an oil sampie from the V drive and see if it has water in it You can tell by the color If it looks like chocolate milk you have a problem If not you may be OK The cooling passage should be cleaned on an annual basis There are several other items in the cooling system that2. x Date Diy lled the V drive a couple of weeks ago and received a rebuild kit 0 I opened the bottom and it looks like the inside of the V rive is fine There s some minimal sign of rust but I think I caught it in time I plan to tear it down this weekend It is possible that water got into the lower case through the dipstick hole This could have happened if the gasket leaked in this area I won t know until I open i is weekend I still think the cooling jacket rusted through Subject RE P424 s Fri 26 Jan 2001 10 57 18 0500 The owner s manual suggests using marine tex to repair the water jacket I m undecided on replacing it yet It depends on what I find when open up the cases I opened up the cooling jacket and had a chanca to inspect the repair I made last summer The marine tex seems to do a good job There is no evidence of chipping pealing or s to do Sanas E a two man lift ri write j ng up to ADIN exactly how to do it The bearings look like id automotive bearings I ll try to match them up at the From lt N3FYP winlink org gt Subject RE P424 s Date Fri 26 Jan 2001 21 20 00 0000 GMT Rich thanks for keeping us informed on your V drive repair Especially since we re in the Boonies right now and can only hope to see a Newsletter when we get mail in Puerto Rico it s helpful to hear about the progress in the interim Re Martine Tex I ve heard some amazing stories about engin
3. 2 2001 Regards Rich i K f 7 a a s a Mate Tue 30 Jan 2001 12 32 02 0500 rom Ed Merrick lt emerrick gis net gt Subject Re P424 s V drive amp etc Hi Rich If you are replacing ali the bearings then disassembly with a hammer is not going to damage anything that you reuse Bearings and races are easily damaged by shock The metal is so hard that it is easy to profluce extremely high point or line loads I trade so often at a local auto parts dealer that he let me use the hydraulic press for disassembly and assembly I am surprised yours came apart so easily I made tools for the nuts by grinding nails to a square cross section to fit the notches in the nuts I then found a socket that would drive the nails and nut combination It was not altogether Satisfactory It tended to slip off and was difficult to get to the 150 ft Ibs Bearings require a pre load to survive Otherwise micro impacts eat them up Again because the metal is very hard The torque sets this pre load I think the sides of the case actually flex a bit This is why shims are critipal as well as bearing dimensions You may remember that J added a zinc to the water jacket My ee engine used this scheme so it made sense to me to use it on the gear box to prevent the cast iron from disappearing Uf gt Bp gt v a ka From Richard Carter lt rich carter windriver com gt Subject P424 s V drive parts Date Mo
4. Anyway found impeller fins in both the input and Output ports of my Sherwood pump Surprise The impeller which L had never replaced was in good condition The lesson here is that not ail impeller pieces make it to the heat exchanger nor do they necessarily travel down stream Also just because the impeller looks good doesn t mean that a previous mechanic has done the whole Job right Since I am taking the engine out removing the pump was easy would not have enjoyed getting the purnp out while having to work around the exhaust manifold but it is possible Another important point The key that drives the impeller was almost worn away I will soon be visiting Boat U S to order a rebuild kit for the pump including bearings and seal key cam and gasket The cam had worn away so as to present a sharp step to the impeller 1 consider Jayne an I very lucky that the pump didn t give out completely last summer while transiting the Cape Cod Canal Ed a A a a r a N gt MS ie EE gt Si ge S printed on 5 2 2001 3 From Hank Sarkis lt hank7 mediaone net gt Subj ct Practical sailor on v drive Ed Ww your question in this month s Practical Sailor My question is Mat o ring There is no o ring in the cover of the drive box there should have been Am I missing something here BTW I just received a new input shaft for my v drive the old one had severe corrosion big chunks falling
5. been used that in six months scratched up the bearings so badly that it looked like they d had 20 years of hard usage Chaternuck said your friend s dipstick problemi is not related to the sealant He said the dipstick is _ aluminum sealed and isolated by an O ring After simple wear from years of use he figured your Pearsons were about 20 years old the instick and the O ring should be replaced I you have problems give Chaternuck a ring at 2 vdrive end as From Richard Carter lt rich carter windriver com gt Subject RE Practical sailor on v drive Date Wed 7 Mar 2001 15 51 07 0500 The O Ring is on the dipstick under the handle It keeps moisture from getting into the gearbox I suppose you could replace the o ring but 1 wouldn t depend on it to keep water out I see no reason to replace H dip stick unless there are signs of significant corrosion We ve exchanged several messages about the V drive and how to it Please Jet me know if you need a copy of these Briefly if ing passage gasket leaks water can get into the gear case by down the dip stick hole If water gets down there it can corrode the dipstick rather quickly You shouldn t put sealant on the gasket as you noted I wouldn t use pemiatex make sure that you Put a nice new gasket on there and e sure that the screw holes ar clean so that the machine screws seat all the way down You can a i Pearson 424 Newsletter Issue 25 tf
6. the top shaft and drive shaft to my mechanic to have him replace the CV joints He also pressed the shafts back in The input shaft seal was a bear to replace I ended up takibg it out in pieces Wire brush the outside of each case piece avoiding the sealing surfaces I took the case down to the car wash and gave it a good wash down with a power hose inside and out after brushing Follow your notes and the service manual for reassembly The shaft sprocket nuts are a bear to torque down I don t think I actually got 160 ft lbs on en It is difficult to hold the wrench on while torquing that hard Walter doesn t bother torquing They use a spanner and crank it down not to be confused with the British use of the term fora cresgent wrench Don t use a chisel to remove or replace the nuts Pain using your choice of colors and reinstall The service manual includes great instructions for aligning the unit To my surprise it requires alignment of the engine shaft A gauge is needed which I rach from Walter My next note will include specifics about aligning the unit Richard Carter Wind River Systems 10 Tara Blvd Suite 330 Nashua NH 03062 Oo 97 207 1 pac 424 Newsletter Issue 25 Parts List updated ORI eects Pes Seng NOTES 1 __ Seal Output 26 08 16 20 ___JM Clipper 15106108 Seal Angie ii NATIONAL Housing Cover _ OPA 1134 450212 5SR e o eee ee GU ESU ee EEIE 20 13 Kit was 4 Gasket Set I
7. to be replaced I also flush with anti freeze each fall had seepage on the water jacket gasket and the top plate was I have access to an powerful press and it was very much needed for this pgoject A hand operated arbor press wouldn t have done the job Various tools are also needed to get the bearings off Do not use a the rollers and break them out over the roller I have never anchor that required much break out force as I always get right on top of it to break it out oking for ideas on how to keep from snagging lobster floats in the prop while sailing Rich suggested a Max Prop which is an idea I like but it is a 3 000 idea The existing prop is 18x11 which I am inced is too small for the W 58 and 2 1 reduction I can rev to PM easily but can t stand the noise I settle for 6 5 Kts at 2700 M I believe 7 kts at 2500 is possible with the right prop I got the prop shaft perfectly straight with soda can shims this spring as previously described The vibration was way down I think the same ham handed person had bent the gear box flange getting the Pearson 24 Newsletter Issue 25 V shaft out of the flange The nut as a spacer between the flanges and then tightening the four bolts to extract the shaft is dangerous and commonly practiced Keep careful track of the shims on the shaft as you remove the parts 2 The shim washers go on just one side I had to call Walter to be sure l m on the other side I couldn
8. M 37 80 o missing 3 aoe SKF 7307 Bearings Ball 45 90 BECBY Se en ee ee ee E E 6 Bearings i 32 40 SKF 6405 spn FAFNIR SSS cf Bearings 20 154 Bs s207K a aaa 20 15 Bearings Taer il Timkan 061E 2 NTN Hi 9 Bearings 26 26 55 80 1DOTLICR 10__ CV Joint Kit 20a 20 34K 57 80 Spicer 5 153X Saals removed Drive Shaft universal CV generic automotive w ses p gt 11 15 00 Precision 269 a g a Pa we eee a a a a U Date Tue 20 Feb 2001 17 22 24 0500 From Ed Merrick lt emerrick gis net gt Subject Re V drive reassembly complete Hi Rich That is a nice job describing the gear box rebuild I would only add the possibility of adding a zinc to protect the water jacket West Marine has one that fits well I may have shortened it with a hack saw I would also like a 424 Email list have communicated with about 15 different 424 owners over the past 4 years Jack Tyler Irin Paris Bart Bolger Bill Tony Ed Engle and the Cassells come te mind Ed Engle keeps an cwners list but his Email didn t work for me last time tried Look at www WINGS424 net Bart and Leah are headed for Miami today I posted a message about the raw water pump for the W 58 on the Pearson Current web site last night I am in the process of removing the engine mostly to get to the fuel tank before it leaks rather than after it leaks I have been able to see the bronze Staples in the rubber strips supporting the tank
9. ad too I don t think the CV joints get well lubricated the way they are mounted There is no way to replace the CV joint unless you completely disassemble the V drive but the seal can be replaced easily This project tumed out to be a much more difficult task than I had originally expected Tan custom fabricate tools to remove the shaft sprocket nuts I also had to buy a torque wrench capable of measuring 200 lb ft JC Whitney 12 I should have bought a press approx 75 and perhaps a gear puller 30 Walter quoted me approx 650 for the labor to rebuild the unit more or less I figure more the bill would probably be closer to 1000 plus 400 for parts I saved about 900 by doing it myself First lets talk about preventative maintenance Change the oil in the V drive each fall and replace with good quality 30wt oil just shy 1 quart When you drain the oil look for signs of water in the oil If there is water the drain oi will look like chocolate milk If you find this condition during the season don t panic The unit is well made and will not fail right away Change the oil and keep your fingers crossed that it lasts the season Walter suggests cleaning the cooling passage each season I agree with their recommendation When you clean the cooling passage keep particles from getting down the cooling system into the cooling jacket Also keep the bolt holes clean or the cover won t seal vacuum if necessary You can use the co
10. d cost about 400 i C rds Rich Mon 29 Jan 2001 22 51 02 0500 Ed Merrick lt emerrick gis net gt I am wondering if Rich was able to buy the special wrenches that are required to work on the Walter Gear box The ham fisted person who abused Indulgence s gear box before we bought her used a cold chisql and did a lot of damage He she also didn t get the torque right so the gears were very noisy The nuts on the end of the two shafts have four square notches around the perimeter I had to buy new nuts to replace the damaged ones and then improvise tools to torque them dowg to 125 to 150 ft lbs I alsq got replacement bearings from a local auto parts store but Walter said they were the wrong ones and only recommended one brand I went with Walter on this even though the bearings didn t look any different Walter gets more money of course but they really do support their product so I will not complain I sangblasted the case after everything was removed I then washed ly seated each time I used RTV to coat the gasket which is my essful practice on automotive jobs Walter says to use no sealant I will buy a new Walter gasket and try this I have also cut my own from rubberized paper material of the automotive sort with the same seepage This did not happen with the original gasket the ham handed fellow presumably installed So maybe RTV allows diffusion of salt water The top plate sits on my work bench waiting
11. e repairs using JB Weld and would think that might also work well To Robp your instincts are right on target While I m not sure exactly what your anchor platform design is you ll need firm support under any bow roller which will be taking the rode s load Typically anchor s Pearson 365 s often came with a platform that even the mfgr recommended not being used for anchoring We anchored in a w River tributary when above flood stage and ended up rode not the anchor under a 50 pine tree We had to pull the bow of the boat down into the water perhaps 1 2 foot before we could lever one end of the tree loose from the bottom and it made was rewarding to have spent the time to design a windlass amp roller arrangement by which we could almost lift the boat Pearson 424 Newsletter Issue 25 7 AY ICR SK EAR Jack Tyler Aboard WHOOSH sat Capao DR w gt b 3 s y ef oah as oa From Richard Carter sich adel Shadi eos cde Subject RE P424 s V drive amp etc Date Mon 29 Jan 2001 10 40 07 0500 I can see why you d want to reinforce your pulpit I suggest looking for a salvaged support before ordering one Maybe you can find something close that can be cut to fit You might find something someone ordered for his boat but didn t pick up or perhaps surplus parts from a boat manufacturer I don t know where you can find them but there are marine surplus dealers out there You might try D amp R That fa
12. iling you re probably forced to hire a custom welder Even if you reinforce it I don t recommend loading the platform either by anchoring off it or pulling the anchor out with it You can get a tremendous load on the rode two thousand pounds or more How strong would it have to be to support the weight of a small car You might get away with loading the platform under normal circumstances but it will eventually get you in trouble I don t even do this with my rollers I have all chain rode I use a chain hook when I set the anchor The hook is tied to the cleat through the chock with a pennant Since you don t use chain I don t know how you could snub it off at the chock Have you considered changing to all chain I use 200 of 3 8 HT If you are worried about the weight you could drop down one size to 5 16 Chain has a lot of advantages The most notable is that you can hear the boat drag if it pulls free It is heavy though about 500lbs for 200 I completely disassembled the V drive last weekend No sign of corrosion through the cooling jacket There was a bad seal on the drive shaft to the prop My guess is that the gasket wasn t seated properly the last time I cleaned out the cooling jacket This allowed water to leak into the dip stick My temporary repair with marine tex was less than perfect As expected the inside of the cooling jacket was coated with a hard deposit similar to concrete I suspect that it is salt I wa
13. ing brushing and cursing to get mine clean I suggest i a ri for leaks before you proceed This is done by pressurizing the cooling jacket with a bicycle pump You need to get fittings from the hardware store to do this If it leaks air it will leak water If you haye a water leak you might consider replacing the case If it doesn t leak you might want to coat the inside with marine tex after cleaning thoroughly I plan to paint the inside of mine too to facilitate ing Remove re tap and replace the drain plugs in the jacket as necessary You need a special pipe tap Digassemble according to the instructions in the service manual If you want a copy send me a self address and stamped 9x12 envelope 6 stamps Two of the studs had to be remove to get a wrench on the CV Joint cover The nuts holding the bottom cover on were difficult too You ll need sprocket wrenches to unbolt the shafts They not are avatlable anyplace on the planet that I can find You could possibly poron mine or fashion your own from sockets using a grinder It took me about 2 hours to grind down a pair of sockets to fit Take car ful notes when you disassemble the V drive The service manual is not accurate depicting parts I suspect that the bearings changed after they printed up the service manual Photos help the temptation to use a hammer to remove or replace bearings end shafts The bearings don t like shock loads You need a press and possibly a puller I brought
14. ing the universal from the engine then pull it out While the iv shaft is out the CV joints can be easily replaced by any good echanic Pearson 424 Newsletter Issue 25 Sa aaa LY After tearing the V drive down I decided to do a full rebuild Had I known that a rebuild was not necessary I would have left it alone and just replaced the top shaft seal The only practical way to remove the two gear assemblies is with a custom pair of wrenches not available anywhere on the planet I fabricated a pair from two sockets by grinding them down to shape If anyone needs to borrow these I can lend them out I can also send a copy of the s anual which Walter sells for 1850 but failed to copy write My best guess is that it should take about 20 hours for an average mechanically inclined owner to do a rebuild including pulling and replacing the unit Several days should be reserved for the job since you ll have to send some stuff out to have a mechanic press the CV joints I was able to remove the other bearings myself Regards Rich a B a Re ee ae et ae ye ee Ne el a M a ae OS From Richard Carter lt rich carter windriver com gt Subject V drive reassembly complete Date Tue 20 Feb 2001 16 04 31 0500 Ive finished rebuilding my V drive and thought it might be worth writing up my notes while the memory is still fresh I found a bad seal at the input shaft One of the CV joints inside the case was b
15. n 5 Feb 2001 17 34 13 0500 Attached please find a list of parts included with the V drive rebuild kit editor s note see final list on pg 10 This cross references the Walter part number to a commercial part number Most of these parts could be obtained over the counter from an automotive store Walter warns against obtaining parts this way I don t know why The CV joint kit item 10 is a standard CV joint used in Chevrolet automobiles The only apparent difference is that the seals are remdved by Walter I assume that this is because they get bathed in oil Walter sells the pair for 57 60 Most automotive stores will sell the same parts for between 15 and 20 each Walter apparently marks them up an additional 100 These CV joints are inside the case not to be confused with the universal joint on the shaft It may be the same part number with seals intact I didn t order these from Walter After disassembling my unit the only part that needed replacement was the drive shaft seal from the engine to the V drive This seal is mounted on a removable plate It would be a simple matter to remove the shaft then remove the seal plate without having to remove the V drive itself Removing the seal was very difficult It is org pressed in If owners decide to replace this seal I suggest wale oving the plate 4 bolts then send it to Walter The shaft is not astened to the V drive in any fashion It can be removed by discopnect
16. need regular service I ll write something up about this in the next few weeks Regards Rich B 6 4 e b tJ td s From Ed Merrick lt emerrick gis net gt Subject Re Practical sailor on y drive Hi Hank I don t think anyone mentioned an O ring The top plate just has a flat gasket The original as supplied by Walter was about as thick as ordinary note paper It had some tan coior to it indicating that the Paper was treated with something I really wanted to know if RTV allowed sodium ion migration but that was beyond the scope of Practical Sailor I know a chemist or two that might be able to answer that question Rich Carter is in the process of rebuilding his gear box He may respond further Permatex these days may be RTV Lused it for many years but have bought none recently printed on 5 2 2001 i
17. off When I change the sha I also plan to remove the top cover amp inspect the water passage even though it was done before by the prior owner Plan to use a light Coal of Permatex on the new gasket Hank Sarkis Ketch Shay Hull 90 From Ps Advisor column Vol 27 Issues5 6 March 2001 of the Practical Sailor Gearbox Seepage amp Sealants A friend and I both own Pearson 424s with Walter gear boxes for the V drive The gear box has a water passage on top for cooling It uses a water When we bought the boat in 1997 the top of this water box was nicely sealed with no seepage After removing the top plate and cleaning out the scale I added a zinc to an available plug hole When replacing the cover I used a new gasket from Walter and coated it with RTV Now both my friend s gear box and mine have what appears to be a white salt line around the joint of the cast iron top plate My friend s dipstick fell off Mine is Starting to show a similar problem The dipstick goes through the top plate and in a comer pf the gear box My question What sealapt should be used ining cast iron parts exposed to sea water rick via e mail Don Chaternuck an engineer at Walter Machine in Jersey City New Jersey Said no sealant should be used with the gasket which is a seal He said RTV besides not being needed becomes hard and brittle and can shed particles that damage the gear box He said Walter recently saw one on which RTV had
18. s not able to remove all of this when I made my repair In some places the epoxy was laid over the salt deposit Water can migrate through the salt and get under the patch so the epoxy didn t adhere properly I spent several hour yesterday removing this deposit but it is too tenacious I tried everything from full strength acid to Drano Nothing works had to chisel and grind it out I couldn t get in the corners properly though I m planning to order a sand blaster toclean it out then apply a proper coating of marine tex to seal the whole thing I think the marine tex will work if it is applied to a clean surface There was a lot of evidence of corrosion inside the jacket Large chips of metal came out when I removed the salt deposit The three cooling fins inside the jacket are almost completely gone I m still not sure that I don t have a hole through the jacket into the dip stick tube I won t know until I can clean it out properly The cases are cast iron J don t think a welder could save them if there is a hole If there isn t I l coat it with marine tex and reuse the cases Til also need an arbor press for the CV bearings This is definitely a five hammer job I m taking pictures and I ll write it all up Replacing the cases wouldn t be trivial All the hardware would need to be removed from the old cases I think I d lose the studs There printed on 2 200 must be 40 of them I estimate that replacing the cases woul
19. soap and pressure wash should remove any dirt and grease I pressure tested the cooling jacket last night I plugged up one end of the jacket and used reducers to put a pressure valve stern in the other end I pumped it up to 25 Ibs and found no leaks At higher pressures the gasket leaks I won t see 25 Ibs in the jacket so there is no reason for a leak I used a hard rubber gasket made using the real gasket as a template When I reassemble I ll use the proper gasket I plan to coat the inside of the jacket with marine tex after sandblasting the sludge off This should prolong the life of the cases I think I know what happened to cause this whole mess When cleaning out the cooling jacket I was not careful to keep the bolt holes clean of debris Each time I cleaned the cooling jacket a little debris got trapped in the bottom of the holes until finally the bolts wouldn t seat low enough to seal the cover Without a proper seal water leaked into the dip stick hole I found this when I had the unit on my workbench last night I cleaned out the holes and ran a tap into them Owners must be careful to clean out these holes each time they clean the jacket Cleaning sh five ras Also it is very important to blow out the jacket after cleaning Any residual debris will clog the engine cooling heat exchanger I keep a scuba tank on the boat I have an air hose adapter for the air tank that provides pressure for an air hose printed on 5
20. t be sure the previous person had done it right Ed From Richard Carter lt rich carter windriver com gt Subject RE P424 s V drive amp etc Date Tue 30 Jan 2001 10 50 53 0500 I wish I had gotten this message last week I damaged both nuts when removing the shafts I wasn t aware that special tools were needed I ll have to replace them I have no idea where to get wrenches Maybe I can bring them to a shop to have them torqued I dropped the CV joints off at my mechanic this moming He ll replace these bearings He matched the part numbers on the universal bearings They come off a Chevy He quoted me roughly 15 per joint for replacements I don t know what Walter charged me Walter may inspect their parts for tolerance before stocking them More likely they are attempting to justify high prices for what are essentially off the shelf automotive parts I ll photocopy the gaskets if anyone wants to make their own After removing the lock nuts both drive assemblies came out fairly easily I tapped them out using a wooden block and hammer I don t think I damaged anything I didn t have to tap hard One of the races is still in the jacket I may leave it there Is there any reason I can t tap the new bearings back in with a block of wood and mallet The parts assembly seem pretty clear about how things go back together After sand blasting the cases I plan to clean them out using a power washer at the car wash Some
21. ver as a template to make your own gasket or use my photocopy of the orginal If you make your own purchase a cheap set of punches 2 to cut the screw holes Make sure that you cut out the center There is no need for sealant If you find problems you might want to remove your unit and rebuild it I noticed that the lower bearings and seals on my urit appeared in good condition whereas the CV joints and seal looked shabby If you are frugal you might want to inspect the whole thing and replace only what is necessary Removing the unit Disconnect the shaft from the engine Pull the shaft out of the V drive It is not attached at that end The shaft will pul right out Unbolt the starboard mounts from the pan There was access under the pan to get at the nuts on the starboard side Port side had insufficient access so I left the mount there and unbolted the urut printed on 5 2 2090 from the mount It weighs about 80lbs Figure 3 hours and a couple ofiscraped knuckles to pull the V drive While it is out this is a good opportunity to inspect clean and paint the pan in the oil I suggest cleaning the unit before disassembly It makes the job easter It might be a good time to clean out the cooling jacket I ve found nothing that will dissolve the salt deposit inside the jacket The case is less than 1 4 inch thick so if yours tooks more like 1 2 thick you have a good deposit It took at least 8 hours of chipping sand
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